Meet the real captive-bred white tiger


(If you find this post informative, you might like to check out these.)


(Added 20070628)

URGENT ALERT: YOUR help NEEDED.

Save tigers from extinction – act here
http://go.care2.com/e/sAi8/kMQw/paSm

(Background info for the action: Daily Mail 20070312: The factory farm tigers being turned into wine)

Meet Kenny, a captive-bred aka “bred by incest” white tiger.

This is the real face of the captive-bred white tiger, one of those that survives the high mortality rate, and among the commonly deformed captive-bred whiter tiger that gets shunted aside in favour of the “normal looking” white tiger.

Who made Kenny? Who made the “Royal White Tiger” and claimed it is an endangered species when it is in fact a product not of Nature, but a man-made concept called captive-breeding and genetic manipulation?

Will the REAL “Royal White Tiger” species please stand up?

As discussed on our White Tiger Fraud post:

Isn’t the White Tiger an endangered species in need of saving, conservation?Consider, the tiger genus has 8 sub-species spread over Asia, 3 of which are extinct. But whether still struggling for survival or gone the way of the dodo, the white tiger is NOT one of these sub-species.

Instead the white tiger is a mutant. It was first noted in the bengal tiger, and in the wild only 1 in 10,000 tiger cubs is born white.

There are only, in total, 2,000 to 6,000 tigers (estimated) surviving in the wild now. Of these, only 2000-3000 are bengal tigers.

You do the math: where did the captive white tiger population, numbering hundreds, in zoos, circus and private collections around the world come from??

So, what is the “captive white tiger breeding programme” but a fraud?

Where be the defective White Tigers?

For every handsome white tiger being exploited to earn tourist/customer moola, there may be anything from 60 to a few hundreds “defective” white tigers that the public do not see – some are stillborn, some suffer delibilating birth defects throughout their lives – blindness, deafness, cross-eyes, hip/leg deformities etc, most don’t live long and die early. What happens to the “defective” white tigers who do not die young from illnesses?

And remember, selective breeding is still a chancy thing. There’s no guarantee you’ll get white tiger babies every single time. So what happens to the non-white tiger babies? Abandoned, killed, abused, tortured… just like the kittens and puppies of kitten and puppy mills. Some are sold to the chinese medicine trade.

Conservation cannot be about exploitation or glamour, or romantic ideals
Putting aside the sheer waste of life, the tiger is afterall a highly endangered species, the conduct of captive white tiger breeders and the zoos/people who support them are equally despicable.

But the people who pay to see the White Tiger, they are the ones who perpetuate this cruelty, this greed-driven marketing machine.

If there is no demand, there will be no supply is the common refrain. So if people will look beyond the enchanting allure of the White Tiger Conservation movement, and ask zoos how this fits into the more vital TIGER conservation, then maybe there is hope for the true tiger conservation effort. Because, given all the facts, white tiger conservation cannot be discussed outside the context of tiger conservation per se.

Below is a list of tiger reference sites that demonstrates the Tiger Crisis. The crisis is deep and immediate, but for the white tiger aficionado, ask yourself this: Where does the “White Tiger species” figure all this? How can I, the white tiger fan help?

References and links
Tiger information and conservation sites (”white tiger conservation” DOESN’T COUNT!). To save the tiger, know about the tiger and take action.

What is Kenny’s story?
Kenny and his buddy, Willie, are two of the very very few lucky “defective” white tigers/attempts at white tiger breeding who are alive despite their deformities and shortcomings.

This is Kenny’s story (emphasis mine)

Although Kenny and Willie have only been a part of the TCWR family since October of 2000, they are quickly becoming favorite members. Both of these unfortunate souls came to us from a breeding facility for white Bengal tigers, and both have what appear to be genetic deformities.

Kenny (a.k.a. Kenny Rogers) was born on February 3, 1999, and has a deformed nose and ‘snaggle teeth,’ giving him a fearsome and, at the same time, heartrending appearance. When I first saw Kenny he was a forlorn looking bundle of dirty white and brown fur, with pale blue eyes set in a Halloween mask face. As repelled as I was by his appearance, I could not help but be touched by his plight. His still present temporary canine teeth compete with his permanent canine teeth for space in his mouth, which cannot completely close because of this deformity, causing him to constantly drool and slobber. At the same time his pug nose is pushed into his face and does not allow him to breath properly. I overheard one visitor uncharitably refer to him as a deformed bull.

… … …

Kenny’s buddy and cage partner, Willie (nicknamed Willie Nelson), was born on April 4, 1998, and has severely crossed eyes. Except for this deformity, Willie is a beautiful male tiger with a long, lithe body and complete feline grace. He adjusted a bit more slowly to his new home than Kenny, and it took him a little longer to become the friendly animal he is today. As with Kenny, he was probably not wanted at the breeding facility because of his deformity and also, perhaps, because of his orange fur. I find it a sad commentary that such a wonderful animal would be discarded because his fur was the wrong color.

(The full story about Kenny and Willie here. However, please also note the comments here about Kenny’s home, particularly the 4th comment by Tony M.)

The plight of Kenny and Willie, and others like them may seem surreal. Perhaps it is understandable that some people deem the deformed White Tiger as figments of imagination, or perhaps tales right out of the twilight zone. But when even the very respected New York Times carry a story about him, there can no be doubt to all but the most insular, that the deformed White Tiger is a reality wrought by human hands.

White Tiger Turpentine Creek Wildlife Refuge, Eureka Springs, Arkansas: In the United States, all living white tigers are the result of selective inbreeding to artificially create the genetic conditions that lead to white fur, ice-blue eyes and a pink nose. Kenny was born in the care of a breeder in Bentonville, Arkansas, on Feb. 3, 1999. As a result of inbreeding, Kenny is mentally retarded.
(Photo and text by Taryn Simon from her “American Index of the Hidden and Unfamiliar” series, as exerpted from New York Times Magazine, published 17 December, 2006)

Why or how did this happen? How can anyone allow such things to go on? Isn’t there any law against it?

White Tigers- The Cruelty Behind the Magic

This is a 5 min video, a great summary of all that is beautiful AND wrong with the captive white tiger breeding programme being perpetuated by zoos, circuses, exhibitors, breeders and exotic pet festishers. A fraud that seemed to have started in America and is now found even here, in Singapore, at the valuted Singapore Zoological Gardens. (This video was made by a 16 year old girl, but I’m not her. She has a youtube account with more information too. This is her account: http://youtube.com/user/CrackleCaracal.)

[EDIT 20071122: The vid is no longer accessible on youtube. CrackleCaracal is in the process of moving her vids to another site - veoh. She also maintains a website at http://www.freewebs.com/cracklecaracal/]

The White Tiger Fraud

This wikipedia page gives a very good accounting of the white tiger bloodlines in existence, with emphasis on those in India. However, it is no less disturbing to read so frequently in the article that daughter was mated to father, cousins to uncles, grandparents to grandchildren, just to sate the world’s demand for white tigers.

Ask yourself now: Is the White Tiger endangered or exploited? you will find the answer easily: there is no room for doubt that the captive white tiger breeding/conservation program a fraud.

More White Tiger Resources


Other original blog entries about the white tiger fraud
(added 31 Mar 07)

We’re not the only ones who have put 2 and 2 together about “conservation” of the “endangered” tiger species called the “Royal White Tiger”, and gotten everything but 4.Scarily, and truly, it extends beyond the United States, but of course. There are 2 white tigers right here in my country, Singapore. The zoo downplay the white tiger “conservation angle” now, but I remember when the two white tigers were first put on display, the advertisement the Singapore Zoological Gardens put out came complete with uber sad, heartstring-tugging music and a matching tagline which went something like: Come see the endangered white tigers, before they disappear forever. So much for being a vaulted pillar of wildlife conservation.And here are some of the well-reasoned, independent white tiger posts we found.

Macrocosmos and Microcosmos: white tigers and the humble amoeba

“The Mirage gives the impression that white tigers are a racethat needs to be conserved. The public is generally unaware of the strains on the captive tiger population and to use white tigers as a poster child of conservation is an abuse of the public’s faith. Conservation is occurring of a ‘non species’ white tigers survive in the wild but only in extremely small percentage, as long as we preserve a diverse range of the more ordinary orange tiger we will preserve the white tiger.”

White Tigers: Species Mortality and Conservational Value

“One example of this slanted perspective on biodiversity is white tigers. These spectacular animals are not a true breed but in fact the result of a rare, recessive genetic anomaly occurring in the more ordinary orange tiger (typically the Bengal Tiger subspecies) . Their fur is white or creamy, they have pink noses, usually blue eyes and black, smoky grey or chocolate-brown stripes or may lack stripes all together.”

Why are there still white tigers at all?

The three cubs have yet to be named, but were born to two white tigers named Conde and Bety at the zoo, having triplets in 2002 and a total of 6 cubs in 2004 according to this Yahoo!News article. What happened to all those other cubs? I can’t seem to find anything, but chances are good that they looked like this

Deformed White Tiger

… …

Trying to figure out what became of the other cubs born at the Buenos Aires zoo, I learned (via the Wikipedia entry) that for quite some time the park wasn’t run well at all, constantly in a state of decay until coming under the responsibility of showbusinessman Gerardo Sofovich in 1989, named “coordinator” of the zoo. Indeed, Sofovich’s prior experience seemed to be in the realm of tv and movies, so somehow I don’t think he would have the well-being of the animals kept at the zoo first in his mind. Regardless of whether Sofovich was actually involved in the white tiger inbreeding program or not, it’s clear that the zoos continuing disregard for the wellfare of their animals stem from their desire for high attendance rates more than anything else.


Other resources and notes

  • Have you bought, or know anyone who bought an exotic pet? Then please read on:

Expose on the Pet Trade. The Animal Protection Institute completed a one year investigation into the cause of so many exotic animals being abandoned by going undercover into the homes of those who promote exotic animals as pets. Watch the shocking video HERE and then TAKE ACTION.


Footnotes

* About this post:
This post was made in response to a comment from Michelle on our White Tiger Fraud post. Apparently, she found our post by using the search term: “whats(sic) it take to adopt a baby white tiger“. (Going slightly off-topic for a moment, here’s a great vid on why Big Cats Make Bad Pets, and if you don’t fancy a vid, here’s a text version, “So you think you want a Lion or Tiger for a pet?“)So anyway, this Michelle said, “i do not agree with you. White tigers are not frauds. There is a really low amount of white tigers so they are bred by incest but i love them.“(sic)I had thought easy to see: the captive breeding programme for the White Tiger IS quite plainly, A FRAUD. What will it take for people to actually READ before making up their minds instead of jumping to conclusions?I posted a reply, and asked a friend who volunteers at bigcatrescue, whose white tiger page is the main basis of our post, to respond as someone who is close to the reality.But Michelle’s comment got me thinking – are there really so many people who do not understand the cruelty in the reality? Is blinkerdom so prevalent?Perhaps our White Tiger Fraud post was too wordy. So here’s our answer – an alternative look, incorporating pictorial elements.)

* about bigcatrescue.org’s white tiger page:
(added Mar 07)

While there is quite a bit of info about the white tiger fraud out there, I find that this page by bigcatrescue.org has all the pertinent info and is the most comprehensive, layman-readable, and complete-in-itself article. I would end up quoting it ceaselessly even if I were to put in more of my own words. That is why I decided to just use it as the main basis of this post.

If you read the comments here, you’ll find a bigcatrescue.org discreditor whose own background is highly suspect. I’ve not removed this person’s anti-bigcatrescue.org comments and have even allowed a link (from a trusted source) to a page that shows that the founder/owner of bigcatrescue.org may have some issues – the reader can use his/her judgment about the whole brouhaha. HOWEVER, this little vendetta does not refute or negate in anyway, the truth about the white tiger fraud, plus the article was not written by the founder/owner of bigcatrescue.org but a respected zoologist, so until I can find an alternative source with info as good and as easy-to-understand, the links to and info from bigcatrescue.org stays.

For reference, here’s something that summarises (and sort of presents our stance) over the issue that sparked off the blinkered-blind-faithly visitations (emphasis mine):

The Bengal Debacle
The controversy surrounding the treatment of marine mammals is partly mirrored by recent events concerning tigers. Roy Horn, of the pair Seigfried and Roy, came to the public’s attention when he was attacked by one of his own white tigers during a show on October 3, 2003 in Las Vegas. Roy Horn and Seigfried Fischbacher have long claimed that the work they do with the tigers is important in conserving a species they call the Royal Snow White Tiger. But there is a problem with this claim—there is no such species. There are Siberian and Bengal tigers that are sometimes white, which is a genetic mutation. Though the mutation is natural, it is rare, and the efforts necessary to breed for the trait put many tigers born of the breeding effort at risk for other, less healthy, mutations. Siegfried and Roy are essentially reducing the genetic pool they have to breed from for the sake of white tigers. In a story for the Ledger in Lakeland, Fla., Ron Tilson, the conservation director of the Minnesota Zoo, says, “There is an extraordinary level of inbreeding resulting in multiple genetic defects. Many are never brought to light, because they are destroyed.” In the same story, Richard Farrando, director of captive wildlife protection at the Humane Society, discounts the claim on the Seigfried and Roy web site that they are helping to preserve the Royal Snow White Tiger.

(source: A Captive Audience)

And for more info about the implications and extent of what Siegfried and Roy has done, I quote Laura, who added her insightful comments here on 16 May (emphasis mine):

Copied from wikipedia “Stage magicians Siegfried and Roy also own snow white tigers and were the first to attempt to breed selectively for stripelessness.”

Another site lists: Siegfried and Roy’s breeding program, now operating on three continents, has increased the number of white lions from a mere two to 23, and the number of white tigers from a handful to more than 200.


EDITS
– 8 Apr 07: corrected formatting issues, and added more info and links, particularly for TIGER conservation, from our White Tiger Fraud post
– 16 May 07: Added quote from Laura’s comment on the same day
– 28 Jun 07: Added care2.com‘s save tigers action alert.
– 13 Aug 07: Edited and format corrected.
– 22 Nov 07: Added info for viewing CrackleCaracal’s vid
– 22 Jan 08: Added link to info about Tuerpentine Creek, Kenny’s home.
– 22 May 08: Edited to minimise references to controversial persons and sites.


(If you find this post informative, you might like to check out these.)
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180 responses to “Meet the real captive-bred white tiger

  1. awwwwwwww
    this is so sad!
    poor kenny!! i’ve been showing this movie and web site to all my friends to share the information i always thought that white tigers were just rare i didnt know that they sufferd constantly!!!

    carebare08@hotmail.com send me any other videos you have

    i love you kenny!!!

    carrie

  2. awwwwwwww
    this is so sad!
    poor kenny!! i’ve been showing this movie and web site to all my friends to share the information i always thought that white tigers were just rare i didnt know that they sufferd constantly!!!

    carebare08@hotmail.com send me any other videos you have

    i love you kenny!!!!!!!!!!

    carrie

  3. Derek McElheran

    God forgive us…!

  4. This has actually brought tears to my eyes …. Human being are so so evil… i’m ashamed …
    Much Love to Kenny
    x x x

  5. The degredation and mutilation that we put such wonderful creatures through without remorse saddens me to no end. I hate being human sometimes.

  6. Sarah Sutherland

    makes you ashamed to be a human being hearing about things like this – why aren’t these people prosecuted?

  7. The sight of these beautiful creatures being so deformed truly breaks my heart. Yet I have to come to the defense of the two men who began the effort of saving the white tigers from extinction, that being illiusionists Siegfried & Roy.
    Nothing can compare to the wonderful care given their animals. Certainly they would be as appalled at what has happened here as the rest of us are. These cats WERE becoming extinct when they received two of them from a King for breeding purposes many years ago. It is sad that misinformed “backyard breeders” have allowed their efforts to go so far astray.

  8. MM,
    I totally disagree with your defence of those two. You’re not understanding the true issues. Let me summarise it for you again since you’ve missed what I said on this post:
    there is no such thing as a natural white tiger species. NOT ONE of the EIGHT tiger species are naturally white.

    White tiger conservation, in itself, is a FRAUD.

    I found a site for Siegfried and Roy’s “conservation efforts” of the white tiger. The opening paragraph there says (emphasis mine): “Siegfried & Roy have created an open-air home for white tigers, enabling the public to share the conservation work of the renowned illusionists in preserving the endangered species.”

    MM, by this sentence alone, the bluff is obvious. There is no bigger illusion than the idea that the white tiger is a tiger species in itself and that it is endangered and in need of preservation. It is the TIGER species, emcompassing ALL living tigers, that urgently needs protection. Without normal tigers, there can never be real, healthy white tigers that are naturally bred.

    For whatever reason, you are seriously missing the picture. So, I respectfully request that you take the time to really read the contents of this post again, and then decide if you are sure you want to continue defending what they are doing. Additionally, you may be interested to refer to our White Tiger Fraud post for more info.

  9. Ok. Calsifer, you don’t know the whole story either. Siegfried and Roy do NOT inbreed their tigers. Never have. The have brought in other tigers so that inbreeding does not happen. They aren’t idiots. They do care very much about their tigers and have done a great deal to make sure they survive.

  10. Right, Melissa. Like MM, you are missing the entire picture.

    AS I’ve said to MM, Siegfried and Roy are claiming to do conservation work” in “preserving the endangered species.

    Check the facts about tigers and this supposed species called the white tiger again, why don’t you? There is NO tiger species called the white tiger species.

    To do real conservation work, the people supposedly doing it HAVE TO be sure of their facts right first. These two men don’t even seem to know or care about the most basic reality about the white tiger.

    And remember, ALL white tigers in the US originated from a single pair, a father and daughter pair. Again, I repeat, the odds of getting a white tiger cub through NATURAL breeding is ONE in TEN THOUSAND.

    Melissa, you seem to be in the know about the breeding programme of thse two illusionists. Have they shown you the geanealogy of the tigers they breed? What is the breeding rate? What is the white to non-white baby ratio? How many pairs are there now? How many have been born? How many have survived and how long have they lived?

    Have they told you what happens to the non-white tigers or deformed ones that are born? They started with a pair of white tigers apparently. what is this pair’s exact lineage and origins?

    Since you’re aware of conservation, I’m sure you’re also aware that in conservation, you do not simply BREED animals in a little setup of your own. You need diversity in the gene pool to minimise in-breeding. And that means working with others, and in a global setting. So there is always a global stud book, detailing the bloodline of every single animal being used in to breed in any genuine conservation pogrammme, and you study each proposed pairing VERY CAREFULLY to make sure they’re not related.

    A real conservation stud book for tigers exist, but is there one specifically for white tigers? Once again, if Siegfried and Roy are bringing in other tigers to continue their farce, the same questions about the origins and the lineage of the tigers they brought in. Did Siegfried and Roy buy these other tigers? Loan them? From where?

    I hope to hear your answer these questions, Melissa. Then we’ll all have the whole story at last.

  11. Folks, Those making these attacks against white tigers are wrong. There is good tiger management and poor tiger managers. I know a lot about tiger genetics. In fact those that are attacking the cats themselves are doing the worse disservice. All tigers deserve to be treated with respect and honor, that stands for White, Tabbies and Standards. Every one of them that attack them go out of their way to obtain them because they make more money, even AZA Zoos do so (See this link before August 2007 http://www.caldwellzoo.org/whatsnew.htm). Tippi, Bashkins, Avestos and the likes have killed and destroyed more big cats than they have ever saved! The entire AR movement has taken the dignity away from tigers and other big cats instead of restoring it. Each time that they pass a new law or ban big cats die because they are forced from stable situations and placed at risk of having no home. White tigers have a place in this World the same as we as humans do.

  12. Calsifer, it’s not just about white tigers. Siegfried and Roy are all about preserving endagered species, like the tigers and lions.

  13. Brian Werner, Executive Director Tiger Missing Link Foundation,
    That’s funny. Where exactly in any of my posts did you read a direct attack on the tigers themselves? Or even the comments here. I would love to know. I only read comments that are against the breeding programme, and the ones which support it, however dubious it is.

    The key thrust I’m making here, since you, like MM and Melissa, do not bother to read, is that white tigers aren’t a species, much less an endangered one. The zoos and breeders of the world exploiting white tigers appeal and misleading the public, who should know better, are the ones with the problems. (Apologies everyone else who gets it).

    The only sentence of yours that I get is the last: “White tigers have a place in this World the same as we as humans do.” Of course, but not when it’s sustained by in-breeding, with all its attendant problems, misery and tragedy for the tigers so bred, abused, misused and killed.

    And how can you, Executive Director Tiger Missing Link Foundation, support this diluting and degrading of the tiger genome? This diluting and degrading casued by the white tiger breeding program, in-breeding white tigers??? Good programme management or no.

    Your words here just give me doubts about the viability and credibility of the genome project by the entity you represent, Tiger Missing Link Foundation.

  14. Melissa,
    There are only “Royal WHITE Tigers” and “WHITE Lions” options on this “Animals” page of the two ilusionists’ site.

    White lions face the same problems as the white tigers. And by the way, there are ONLY Bengal Tigers that are called Royal Tigers. There is, again, no such species as the Royal White Tigers.

    I got distracted by this “nursery” page – surprise surprise, it’s all about WHITE tiger or lion babies only.

    But wait, there is another option on the Animals page, “The Secret Garden”! I see Dolpins, Gildah the Elephant, Leopard, Cheetah, Black Panthers, Snow Leopard. Wow!

    Did you ask Siegfreid and Roy how the 11 dolphins in their Dolphin Habitat got there? I know dolphins are usually caught from the wild, wrenched from their families, which are usually destroyed in the capture process. Check out http://www.bluevoice.org for the real deal. But you know, in case you have problems accessing it, here’s my summary:

    Dolphin exhibits are another headsmacker. In the wild, they form close-knit family groups called pods, and know and remember relations, from grandparents to distant cousins. The process of acquiring and preparing dolphins to be cooped up in a tank and perform tricks for our laughs is a long, ardous, painful one. Pods are destroyed in the capture process. Injuries and deaths dog the captured dolphins. Most will die in the training process, and those who survive rarely live beyond a few years. This makes the ’smile’ we see on a dolphin’s face even more ironic. (www.bluevoice.org)

    And in case you think it’s just activist rhetoric, check out this UK news item, published on 17 Jan 2007.

    And about Gildah the elephant. Elephants, like dolphins are social animals. They face the same horror of being wrenched from families to perform in circuses or shows. I wonder how Siegfreid and Roy got Gildah, and how they trained her? Because the comments on this site seem representative of the type of “training” elephants are made to endure for human entertainment.

    I’ll leave it to you to google for captive Leopard, Cheetah, Black Panthers, Snow Leopard problem.

    However, I would like to share some interesting facts from this highly insightful article:
    All for show? Ringling Brothers’ circus claims to promote conservation
    I found this bit insightful:

    Ringling suggests that sperm from its male elephants could be used to regenerate the animals’ population in Asia, when technology allows. Conservation biologist Tom Dillon, director of the Species Conservation Program at the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), dismisses this. He says the likelihood of needing sperm from CEC elephants is close to zero, given diversity in the wild Asian elephant gene pool and the large number of captive elephants still in Asia.

    This article also has a nice summary:

    A growing number of cities are banning circuses with animal acts, and activists are not convinced that Ringling has changed. The lives of elephants born at the CEC “will be filled with chains and bullhooks,” charges Debbie Leahy, director of captive and exotic animals for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA). “The fact that wild populations are still dwindling is proof enough that what they’re doing isn’t doing a darn bit of good.”

    But since Ringling Brothers’ deception is not new to the world, I found this bit way more interesting: “Feld Entertainment, Ringling’s corporate parent (which also owns the Disney on Ice and Siegfried and Roy shows)”

    Much to think about, no?

  15. God, people can be so bloody evil!

    Some people posting here just don’t get the point of breeding White Tigers.

    IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN, PERIOD!

    Those 2 Las Vegas Queens (S&R), even with their ‘good work’ are still promoting White Tigers, which is wrong.

  16. Hi Andrew,
    Well-said! Exactly right.

    What a refreshing change from the last three comment-leavers you are! Thank you. Thank you so much for actually reading and UNDERSTANDING, and then making a sane, rational comment!

    But you know what? I’m also enjoying the opportunity to tear ever bigger holes in Melissa’s dodgy ‘defence’ of those two. She don’t answer my questions, and then goes on to make even grander statements. Of course then I’d have to go look. The more I dig, the more I can see how lame and pretentious the “conservation” work of her precious Siegfried and Roy is. Of course, the more exposure there is of their laughable “conservation” , the less I think of them.

    I hope more people open their eyes and SEE too.

  17. this is so sad it made me cry they out of be ashmed and arrested and this should stop..

  18. Calisfer,
    the people you are trying to preach, are big cat sanctuary owners, and also big cat conservationists. They are people who have come together to work as a whole to help the big felids from extinction.
    White tigers, even though, it is rare, have been born in the wild.
    So please, stop bashing the experienced professionals, who are doing something about big cat conservation.
    You are just showing your ignorance and your animal terroristic tactics by bashing and trying to humilate experienced professionals.

  19. Sara,
    (See I get the first thing about you right)
    Congratulations! A bit late you are, but no worries, you must be glad to know you are conclusion jumper number 4 here. Let me guess, you are another supporter of the hedge-wizards of tiger-breeding/conservation. How misguided and self-delusional you are too, just like conclusion jumpers number 1 through 3.

    All you conclusion jumpers are so quaint. I keep having to repeat the obvious and whatever’s been said. You behave just like spam bots. So I don’t like breeders who are shady about the truth, and that makes me an animal terrorist for saying my piece and being able to jump over the gaps in your logic?

    I am not going to repeat what is obvious but why don’t you go ask these “conservationists”, these “experienced professionals, who are doing something about big cat conservation” you so defined as such what happens to the big cats they are conserving, and breeding? What’s the plan for them? Just keep them on exhibitions and make them jump through hoops at Vegas shows?

    And since you all refuse to read, the short answer no, I am not preaching at the genuine big cat sanctaury owners, nor the genuine experienced professionals, who are doing something about big cat conservation. I am trying to make the general populace AWARE there are some who call themselves big cat sanctaury owners, genuine experienced professionals, who are doing something about big cat conservation, but are in fact doing something that’s in quite another league.

    How hilarious, me preach to big cat sanctaury owners? Me bash “experienced professionals, who are doing something about big cat conservation”?

    You mean you really believe Siegfried and Roy are “conservationists”, “experienced professionals, who are doing something about big cat conservation”? When the truth about white tigers is screaming in your face and you have your fellow conclusion jumpers here as examples of where your logic fails?

    How wrong you are, your definition of big cat santuary owners and “experienced professionals, who are doing something about big cat conservation” differ so wildly from the norm. Far be it for me to bash the true professionals. I revere and respect them.

    I highly doubt it, but YOU, all you conclusion jumpers and Siegfried and Roy defenders probably did not notice it was one of your very own who brought those two out on this post for parading. I would not even give those 2 time of day myself. But there’s no accounting for preference I guess.

    Sara, do yourself a small favour. Scroll back up to the top, and TAKE A GOOD LOOK at Kenny. A really GOOD look, and ask yourself: can you really deny the truth of the poor boy? Don’t you ask yourself what happened to him? How did it happened? Why did it happen? WHO did it???

    The only thing you, Sara, said that is sane is “White tigers, even though, it is rare, have been born in the wild.” (SIC) Of course! But don’t stop there, please. Think about what happens to white tigers so born. However you want to twist it, NOTHING justifies INBREEDING, aka mating father to daughter, to get white tigers in captivity! It sure does not JUSTIFY the sham that is the WHITE TIGER FRAUD.

    I thought it was plain to see that I took all this info from websites of REAL big cat sanctuary owners like bigcatrescue.org etc. So congratulations for being another lazy dogmatic reader.

    Whatever it is, I sure hope you respect yourself enough to read this response to your totally misguidedly self-righteous “comment” before replying.

  20. Melissa & Sarah, the obvious know-it-alls in town… you guys are a real laugh… obvious enough to see that you dont know half of the facts…

    Calsifer quote: “I am not going to repeat what is obvious but why don’t you go ask these “conservationists”, these “experienced professionals, who are doing something about big cat conservation” you so defined as such what happens to the big cats they are conserving, and breeding? What’s the plan for them? Just keep them on exhibitions and make them jump through hoops at Vegas shows?-”

    And i agree totally with you Calsifer… So Melissa/ Sarah please, since you ‘know all’ why dont you share with us exactly what happens to the Tigers once they’re put in a zoo?

    You’ll find that any animal kept in a zoo has almost completely lost its mind.. Obviously, a zoo isnt any place for an animal – were they origionally born in such environment as a zoo? (I’m sure Melissa/ Sarah can answer that question for us)…

    If you’re keen to see torture i recommend that all you need to do is visit a zoo, any zoo (that is) and the reality of such places will be at your feet… the sadness overflows in any zoo-animals eyes and you cant hide that… open your eyes girls, go see it for yourself…

  21. I do big cat rescue, I am over 50 years old, and have been rescuing and relocating wild felids for the last 25 years. By your attitudes, your slamming, and your ridiculous assumptions, we know for sure without a shadow of doubt, you have no hands-on knowledge of what you are writing about. I have seen the worst – have you? Big Cat Rescue is a farce, always has been, always will be. Did you know she had her cats illegally when she was an breeder of the big cats? yes, she was a breeder. She helped cause the problem of unwanted big cats. Did you also know that 65% of her cats, are her cats? not rescues, nor relocates, but hers. Hers as the result of her breeding. You have no idea what the big cat community is all about, and before you preach your propaganda, remember, these cats you see in captivity, were not taken from the wild, they were born right here in the states, from zoos, from sanctuaries, to draw in money. Once the animal becomes too old to exhibit, they either sell it, give it or kill it. Do not be fooled by the sanctuaries claiming the sad stories of how they received their cats, it is nothing more than lies. They do this, to bring attention to themselves and for more donations. It is all about the money.

  22. You mentioned going to see a zoo, I worked at a zoo as a zoo vet tech for quite some years. I could tell you the atrocities I have seen, but I will not go there. You are just children who do not know any better.

  23. Just reading the comments from Melissa about Siegfried & Roy’s love and good will towards many animals.

    I take it Melissa you have never been to the Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas? Except from the Dolphins who seem relatively happy the site of the other animals, Lions, Tigers and an Elephant is deeply upsetting and sickening I innocently went along thinking a big Vegas Hotel where image is everything would ensure all the animals were happy and well cared for.

    Instead you are greated by bored, depressed, head shaking, animals clearly on the edge of madness. It made me sick to the pit of my stomach. The dolphins seem to be the only animals that get any stimulation because they draw in people for regular shows.

    The sight of the other animals had me in tears and if you can read the content of this website and believe that the people behind all this type of indiscriminate breeding are careful or have the animals welfare at heart then you are incredibly naive.

    Siegfried & Roy are about money and nothing else. The fact Roy was attacked just further goes to proove you can’t and shouldn’t attempt to tame or domesticate these animals as you are playing with fire.

  24. Sara,
    “By your attitudes, your slamming, and your ridiculous assumptions, we know for sure without a shadow of doubt, you have no hands-on knowledge of what you are writing about.”

    Guess what? Right back at you.

    Play it straight, Sara. Answer my questions, why don’t you, you and whoever makes up this “we” you are a part of? I’m always up for an intelligent discussion. But don’t come swaggering in with your holier-than-thou attitude, acting all mysterious, with crpytic claimings.

    If you’re in Siegfried and Roy’s corner, imho, you are shooting yourself in the foot, Miss “more than 50 years old big cat rescue worker”. But I am going to see what I can find about your ominous claims about bigcatrescue.org (see, I don’t let bigotry or dogma, or in fact, laziness about reading, or conclusion jumping to get in the way).

    But if you think you can use this post as a platform for personal agendas or waging rivalry wars, guess again.

    BTW, age, in a lot of cases, is inconsequential. That’s something best flaunted with discretion.

  25. Her facility was once called, “Wildlife on Easy Street”.

    Here I will help your learning process:

    (Deleted by calsifer) link from private breeders/private exotic animal ownership interest/lobby group

    (Deleted by calsifer) link from site with bad navigation and no proper about us page (EDIT by calsifer: confirmed this is also a private breeders/private exotic animal ownership interest/lobby group site)

    (Deleted by calsifer) link from private breeders/private exotic animal ownership interest/lobby group

    (Deleted by calsifer) link from private breeders/private exotic animal ownership interest/lobby group

    (Deleted by calsifer) link from private breeders/private exotic animal ownership interest/lobby group

    http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=3364&pst=402830&archival=1

  26. Sara,
    I can google as well as the next person. But thank you for providing the links despite your continued condescension. If nothing else, it tells me a bit more about the type of background and views you might have. It certainly gives me an idea why you come in here, guns blazing but questions-dodging.

    I will not allow most of the links you provide as they originate from private breeders/exotic animal owners interest groups. That was something I found really interesting. Sure, it looks like the bigcatrescue founder may have dodginess surrounding her, but hey, it is equally dodgy that the majority of the sites with the helpful info and links YOU provide are private breeders/exotic animal owners interest groups. Is it just a coincidence or are you more closely linked to those people than you let on, Sara?

    However, this care2.com post is certainly from someone I would trust, plus I DO NOT dodge problems or questions, so I’m pasting the link here for everybody’s reference. (Folks, google the info yourself if you want more, but pelase be discerning about the source – there’s a lot of wolves in sheep clothing out there too)

    More than meets the eye

    btw, Sara: You’ve consistently refused to answer my questions about your jump-to-conclusion-holier-than-thou-mow-‘em-all-down statements here. I can only conclude you support the white tiger fraud yourself. Your mission of discredition is completed, and I’ve put up with it only because I also want to learn more. If you are not going to answer any of my pertinent questions about your sweeping conclusion jumping statements, you can go away now.

  27. Lady sara… thank you for sharing your lifestory with us, maybe you are brainwashed by your own history?

    Do you seriously believe age has anything to do with this? Dont you think that’s a tad-bit immature on your own behalf?

    So…. WHEN exactly will you answer Calsifer’s questions at hand? Will it ever be? or should you just go away as Calsifer suggested.. it’s pretty plain for us all here to see lady sara, that you have your mind tuned to what YOU believe. Professional or not, when it comes down to it you’re not the only soul in the world but it surely seems like you think you are..

  28. Sara quote: “and before you preach your propaganda, remember, these cats you see in captivity, were not taken from the wild, they were born right here in the states, from zoos, from sanctuaries, to draw in money.” This sounds absolutely right!! You’re spot on!!! They were not born in the wild origionally, they were forced out of their natural habitat to be born right there in the fake-lands of the States!!

    Reading your comments you make it so obvious Internationally that you’re all “I,I,I – Me, me, me – look what i done blahblahblah” Sara quote: “I have seen the worst – have you?” It’s not about you and what you’ve done sara…

  29. Ash.ave,
    =) that last bit is such a tickler!

    Thanks!

  30. Hi Calsifer,

    I strongly support and appreciate what you’re doing here 100%. Please, dont ever give up on letting the truth on this issue be heard.

    I want to THANK YOU for all of the research that you have independently done on this issue and, for all (and so much) information that you have made readily available to us all.

    Many Thanks,

    Ash

  31. I just want to say that inbreeding is a BIG NO NO! No form of life should be inbred unless by Gods Word. It doesn’t matter how many degrees a person has accumulated on any subject it does not give them the right to inbreed for the survival of anything. This world is temporary and no-one or thing lives forever. I also do not believe in cloning the complete being but may agree with cloning parts as long as the thing does not require a spirit to run it. Spirits are only given by God and can only be placed in a being, from the heavens. If it is done at all it will not work 100%. Let’s leave these decisions to God and his helpers.

  32. Hi Ash,
    Thanks for letting us know (my sister btmao does this too) that you find this info useful.

    Just want to share a few links, for the benefit of other readers too: Our focus is doing TNRM in Singapore for the cats here. It’s been a frustrating process at the macro level because there’s an official propensity to kill rather than take effective measures ie sterilise aka TNRM! But locally, in our neighbourhood, our lot are not too badly off. *touch wood* But still, we want to see compassion and sense at the national level. (Thank goodness for the Cat Welfare Society and their only paid worker, Dawn.)

    But even though we’re mainly preoccupied with tnrm, it doesn’t mean here’s nothing else wrong with the world. Everything is linked with everything I believe.

    For example: Elephants. Like tigers, they are abused and exploited by human greed and vanity (what’s new eh?). You might like to read about Tyke the circus elephant, who died from over 80 gunshots. May she rest in peace

    Anyway, here’s some of our planned projects
    * the annual dolphin slaughter in Taiji, Japan and the blood trail of demand for these beautiful creatures by aquariums and oceanariums
    * bird flu threat – made by human greed. And here’s some more related stuff
    * environment: green house gases . This might also interest you: Endangered Species List Expands to 16,000,while we keep cutting down rainforest

    But real life! ARGH!

    Well, if you have a website, maybe you can look into doing up info pages on these and more. Let us have your links when done. ;-)

    Oh, here’s some links list that you might find useful too:

    For a list of corporations you might want to stop supporting and consumer impacts, see these links:

    * Does your grub bleed?
    * They suffer for your shopping therapy
    * Don’t breed or buy while shelter animals DIE

    BTW, i think you’ll like GEARI

  33. I am coming to Siegfried and Roy’s defense too. Siegfried and Roy have done sooooooooooo much for animal conservation. NOT just white tigers BUT tigers, leopards, panthers, lions, and snow leopard’s. You WILL NOT find better cared for animals anywhere else. They lov etheir cats. Especially Roy who is the one who is good with the cat’s. He has been good with animals ever since he was a kid and I truly believe that they care about these animals. They do not inbreed and keep all of their tigers white or otherwise.

  34. Ah, I wouldn’t want to respond to you and your ilk Sarmotifriend, when all you do is repeat ad-naseum without providing proof to the contrary. But congratulations are in order to you, Siegfried and Roy’s defender aka conclusion jumper number 5/blinkered blindly faithly here.

    How amazing that you’re making comment number 37, and still manage to repeat the same tiresome ruckus as conclusion jumper number /blinkered blindly faithly numbers 1 through 4. Must be a special ability you all share.

    So you refuse to read, and would rather cling on doggedly to “belief” than face the facts and reality. Fine. I just thought that you ought to be aware that though none of you have had anything concretely different or solid to prove your beliefs, the more you and your fellow conclusion jumper/blinkered blindly faithly come in here to scream your grand statements, the higher you keep the visibility of this post on the blog. So the more people who would otherwise not even care about the white tiger fraud being perpetuated by people like your beloved Siegfried and Roy see it and read about the reality. And that can only mean the more people there will be to tell others the truth. So thank you for helping to keep the white tiger fraud and the involvement of your beloved Siegfried and Roy visible. The other exploited animals like snow leopards, elephants, dolphins will benefit too.

  35. Caitlin Dubbs

    I think Kenny is cute in a weird sort of way

  36. Caitlin,
    If you read his story, you’ll see that Kenny’s got a great personality. I’ve nothing against Kenny or Willie. But look also at what Kenny has to live with. Can you imagine living your life like that? But then, at least he gets a life of care and love, something that most other Kennys don’t get.

    I’m angry and disgusted at the people who perpetuate the white tiger fraud and cause tigers to be born with defects like Kenny’s, and for using conservation as a cover for their shameless greed and egotism. I’m also disgusted at the general public for being so accepting of these people’s deception and for not thinking about the truth behind the beauty they see.

    Please tell your friends and family about the fraud, but do let them know, it’s not the tigers’ fault at all, they are themselves victims of human greed and exploitation.

  37. ….couldnt have put it better myself, Calsifer.

  38. This is not about Siegfried and Roy

    It’s about the hundreds of circuses, zoos, wild pet owners that inbreed these tigers and misuse them.

    I believe that Siegfried and Roy are helping the tigers but I can’t say that they haven’t inbreed their own tigers..I prefer to think not because they are professionals. I do believe that they are doing more good then bad. However because of their popular show other entertainers are practicing their own horrible inbreeding method in attempt to copy the famous show.

    I appreciate this website and it’s creater who is only trying to open our minds and eyes

  39. Jackie,
    You’re right, this isn’t about Siegfried and Roy – they’re not worth the focus. That’s why I did not mention them specifically. However they were brought in and made the centre of the universe by their supporters. The carnival continues as long as people refuse to take off their personal blinkers and LOOK.

    Indeed, “hundreds of circuses, zoos, wild pet owners” inbreed, exploit and abuse white tigers. And other big cats. Even elephants, dolphins, bears… the list is endless.

    Please read again the comments before yours that’s been posted about Siegfried and Roy”so-called” conservation efforts. It is a fact that the Siegfried and Roy website states that they are doing white tiger conservation, to save the endangered WHITE tiger:

    “Siegfried & Roy have created an open-air home for white tigers, enabling the public to share the conservation work of the renowned illusionists in preserving the endangered species.”

    Any genuine help for TIGERS must preclude this obsession with white tigers. and knowing the truth about white tigers in captivity means this is a misleading statement, to put it mildly.

    Using white tigers in their show degrades, misinforms and confuse the issues of TIGER conservation and the White Tiger Fraud.

    Using white tigers and promoting their allure as an “endangered species” sure adds glamour and allure to their show, but Siegfried and Roy are bilking the romanticism of the wild beast on a stage, the myticism of control over wild animals, and the audience’s feel-good factor of seeing a member of an “endangered species” up close and earning his keep.

    The fact that these two claim to be doing onservation of an endangered species just becomes so much bullocks, used to cement the flaky foundation of their justifications for exploiting white tigers and exploiting the public’s naivete. So I cannot agree with your view/belief that they are “helping the tigers” nor that “they are doing more good then bad”. This is especially when as you observe:

    However because of their popular show other entertainers are practicing their own horrible inbreeding method in attempt to copy the famous show.

    Siegfried and Roy are not guiltless in inspiring this phenomenon. In fact, I am disgusted at their roles in it.

    Well, it looks like Siegfried and Roy are getting time on this blog entry again after all.

    But thank you for being civil, polite and applying some thought to your comment, and for being clear that you “can’t say that they haven’t inbreed their own tigers”. Really, unless Siegfried and Roy themselves prove it, which would be a major miracle, any grand statements that captive-bred white tigers have no inbreeding in their lineage can’t hold tiger urine, white or otherwise.

  40. white tigers are beatiful but they need to be helped

  41. ALL tigers need help, and they need LESS meddling from humans who just want to artifiicially make more white tigers.

  42. All Tigers are gorgeous animals, no matter what ‘genetic faults’ they have!

    Just thought I’d voice this oppinion.

  43. Caz,
    Right you are. In fact, ALL living things are gorgeous. The really hideous thing is what we humans, Homo Sapiens, do to them for whatever reason or excuse we dream up.

  44. Everyone,

    I have only been able to read about the first 10-15 posts, and I am completely disgusted. You all have intelligent, rational and valid points, but please, children, can’t you all grow up. You have made this about you and your petty squabbles.

    This article comes down to the fact that there are people out there (and I’m not naming any names before you jump to conclusions) that are wilfully and purposefully putting these animals (and probably others) through hell in order to create a nice, public pleasing, exhibit. White tigers are not natural, although they have been born and survived (although arguably barely) in the wild. That is not to say we have the right to purposefully manipulate that fact for our own ends. Inbreeding is WRONG. It causes more problems within a species than is justifiable – just look at the human race. Incest is illegal in god knows how many countries- there is a reason for it. Royal lines have destroyed themselves because they did not vary their gene pool – we are doing the same to the tiger if we continue to allow inbreeding for the sake of colour. By allowing perfectly healthy, orange coloured tigers be ‘done away with’ because of the colour of their fur is just as bad as the centuries of racism we have let fester in our society.

    Yes, white tigers are beautiful, don’t get me wrong, and if there was a safe way to breed them and let the world se their majesty, I would be all for it, not only to save white tigers, but the tiger species as well. Unfortunately, the white tiger does not “need to be helped”. Natural selection should be allowed to take its course, and if that means the recessive gene is ‘fixed’ or made less dangerous to a tigers health then good. But if not, then unfortunately there may not be a place for the white tiger in the HEALTHY future of the species.

    As for Siegfried and Roy… Well I, not any one else who has posted it seems, has enough information to be able to make a fair and just assessment of their situation. I will admit that they do seem to look after their animals – if in an unorthodox way. However, how they breed and what their aims are for the breeding are unknown to us. Therefore, can we stop bashing or idealising them?

    Finally, I think it is an unfortunate fact that, due to the continued hunt for the tiger that their best chance of survival is in the Zoo’s, conservations and private collections – at least for now. What needs to be done is not this pitiful argument, but actual EDUCATION. These organisations need to be made aware of the problems, difficulties and suffering of trying to manipulate breeding in such a way. Once we have educated as many as possible, perhaps then the scientists can come back and address the gene ‘problem’ and see if there is a way to manipulate it, with no detrimental effects.

    Zann

  45. I’ve loved Kenny since the first time i saw those big pushed in eyes. He is so cute and it is so cruel that anyone would say something rude about him. Willie’s story is so so sad too. Like how they wouldn’t take him because he has cross eyes and his fur is the wrong color. He is a beautiful tiger and so is Kenny.In my eyes they are the most beautiful tigers in the world, just because they injoy life even with their deformaties(that I don’t think they have it’s just that all others are have them and we can’t see that) and they are good animals. I mean if you went to any other place would the tiger in it go up to you and let you pet it, no it would not. That is why I’m doing my 5th grade Exit project on it.
    From,
    hayley scherette *crying*

  46. Zann,
    You seem to have a grip on the picture. But I’m a bit confused. If you’ve read the number of posts/comments you said you did, I don’t see how you’d think that there’s that much of a (hopefully) benign mystery about S & R, and I quote: “As for Siegfried and Roy… Well I, not any one else who has posted it seems, has enough information to be able to make a fair and just assessment of their situation. I will admit that they do seem to look after their animals – if in an unorthodox way. However, how they breed and what their aims are for the breeding are unknown to us. Therefore, can we stop bashing or idealising them?”

    For one, I thought the italicised was supposed to have a “not” in there. For another, I’m disturbed to think that you might just be defending them – which is so sad IF you’ve actually read all that you claim to have read.

    hayley scherette,
    I believe you’re not getting the picture here. As I’ve said before, all this White Tiger Breeding fraud is the problem and it is NONE OF Kenny’s FAULT. Poor KENNY IS A VICTIM. Look at what Kenny has to live with, all his life. A mouth that can’t close because of his wayward teeth, which also causes him to be forever drooling, and a retarded brain that means he’s slower on the uptake than everyone else. If he had a choice, do you think Kenny would choose to be like this?

    Kenny didn’t make himself into what he is now. It is people, HUMANS like you and me who did. IF what has happened to Kenny is natural, so be it. But the problem is, it is not. And it is happening because of people, HUMANS like you and me. And the sad fact is, after making tigers with problems like Kenny’s, the people who inbreed for white tigers won’t stop there and take responsibility.

    Failed white tigers like Kenny are likely to be abandoned, sold as freakshow displays, to supply tiger meat parts to the Asian markets or otherwise exploited and abused, eg as canned hunting targets!

    Not every failed white tiger is lucky to be saved like Kenny was.

    hayley scherette, rather than cry and do a project on just how lovely Kenny is (which I’ve no doubt he is), why not do a project on what is captive white tiger breeding, and what happens to the other Kennys born because of “captive white tiger breeding” and teach your school mates how and what people, HUMANS like you and me, can do to stop it? That would be more help to Kenny and his fellow victims of “white tiger breeding”.

  47. I just wanted to tell you that I support you in trying to bring to light the horrors of inbreeding of tigers to try to “produce” the white tiger. Since white tigers are do NOT naturally occur often, they are inbred in an attempt to “produce” the white tiger to fill the publics appetite for something “different” to look at. I have been to Turpentine Creek many times and have seen Kenny myself many times, along with all the OTHER neglected tigers and lions and other animals who are there. One breeder alone had 47 tigers removed from their facility. Turpentine Creek was able to take some of those unwanted animals in. Turpentine Creek gets calls all the time to take in unwanted BIG CATS. Until the US sets better laws regarding the sale and breeding of exotic animalls there will continue to be a problem with exotics. Turpentine Creek does NOT breed ANY of its animals, they let the animals live out thier lives as peacefully as possible and they recieve excellent care. Right now I have a picture of Numa-Kurlee a lion that lives at Turpentine Creek on my desk and pictures of other cats from there around my office on the walls. Numa-Kurlee was the only one of a litter of 3 cats to survive. There are many cats like him living there and each one has a story. I encourage anyone who thinks that in-breeding of exotics for human entertainment is somehow “saving the species” to look at Turpentine Creeks website and read each story about each animal living there and how they were treated and why they were brought into this world to begin with. White Tigers ARE the result of inbreeding today, there hasn’t been many “natural” births in the world of white tigers and since they are NOT a breed in and of themselves…. SAVING the white tiger makes no sense at all since the white tiger is NOT a breed but a mutation! (granted a pretty mutation, but a mutation non the less!)

    Copied from wikipedia “Stage magicians Siegfried and Roy also own snow white tigers and were the first to attempt to breed selectively for stripelessness.”

    Another site lists: Siegfried and Roy’s breeding program, now operating on three continents, has increased the number of white lions from a mere two to 23, and the number of white tigers from a handful to more than 200.

    Now, however, they are billed as Royal White Tigers or Snow Tigers or other fanciful names. They have been transformed from essentially a freak of nature into an “endangered species.” There are no endangered white tigers in the natural world clinging to a precarious existence. There are plenty in captivity, along with a few white lions, who have always been no more than a novelty or publicity draw for their owners. The white tiger is a chance mutation in the wild and in the US it is a FORCED mutation.

    Oh well running out of things to say, keep up the good work regarding the tragic story about the “white tiger” I wish all of you could actually go see Kenny and others at Turpentine Creek and see how many there are deformed “rejects” of the big cat trade. At least those cats that live there now, can live out the rest of their days in peace and actually put their feet on the grass and have the sun shine on them and have people who LOVE them care for them. Here is a link to read more about the sad story about exotics and those who love them and will care for them even though they have been abused, neglected and uncared for: http://www.turpentinecreek.org/NewSite/

  48. Laura,
    Thank you very much for:
    – Weighing in with your real-life experiences of meeting with Kenny and his fellow rescue-cats at Turpentine Creek.
    – Your precise understanding of the whole mess called the White Tiger Fraud, and for realising it goes beyond white tigers, that other big cats, both the specifically trait-bred ones, like white lions, to the usual ones
    – Providing more info on the shameful business of captive big-cat breeding

    I hope more people read your comments and really THINK, because as a real-life account, your words are far more impactful than mine could ever be. Thanks for taking the time to pen your thoughts here.

    Thank you, Laura.

  49. I, too love Kenny (and his sometimes forgotten yet still amazing brother Willie) and There are for too few places like Turpentine Creek and Big Cat Rescue out there.

    I know it’s dismissive, but I don’t think it hypocritical to have a facility like that even if 20 years ago or whatever, the founders were pet owners. It just means that they wised up. Most religions thrive on converts. Most Christians I know love to hear of someone repenting their ways and being “saved”

    It’s places like this that need our priase now. They’re the ones cleaning up other people’s messes. Nowhere, and I mean nowhere should any SSP animal be bred except in an SSP facility, where bloodlines can be monitored and genetics can be purified. That’s why it’s so frustraing the hear the suits telling the conservationalists to do certain things to raise money.
    I’ve never met a Cat person who advocates freakshows like whites or stripelesses or hybrids like Serval/housecats or Ligers. Places that do this (zoos included) are only after the money aspect of it. But it’s not the “animal people” in these zoos, it’s the beauracrats. Money talks in this country, and the sooner people stop paying money to see these unnatural animals, the real conservation can begin.

  50. hi okay so the 1 in 10,000 white tiger that is born. would that make it a bengal white tiger or a siberian white tiger. i think its a shame that people would breed these animals together. it would seem so much better if we could see the 1 in 10,000 then we could aww over that. white tigers used to be my favorite but now that i have learned about how they are bred and how much goes into it. i dispise the crossbred and inbred white tigers they have made. i only like the 1 in 10,000 they are special. i had to do bengal tigers for a enironmental science project and i feel ashamed for the boy in my class who picked white tiger because its not even a subspecies of tiger. so it cant be endangered. although i never thought it was. its not endangered because it doesnt excist. a white tiger is a mutation of a tiger. you cant cross breed something and make it a new spieces. that would be like sayin we are doing something godly. since when is anyone a god.

  51. amanda, im not a tiger or gene expert but I assume that if a tiger were to be born naturally white and not as a result of inbred mating it could be, a pure white bengal tiger, a pure white siberian tiger or a hybrid white siberian/bengal tiger depending on the speicies of the mother and father.

    For me it it is very disheartening to hear that all of the white tigers I have been fascinated by for all these years are not true white siberian or bengal tigers and equally dissapointing to hear the odds of there being a natural born white tiger considering that there are probably much less than 10,000 wild tigers alive today.

  52. poor kenny and willie my heart is broken and will never be heald im so ashamed and embarresd :(

  53. Stop the fighting … cant we all just hug it out!!!!!!!

  54. i wanne adopt kenny!!!

  55. I have a wonderful cat named Snickers and that last message about the cat meat market just makes my stomach turn…sigh. I can’t even imagine putting my kitty Snickers on a dinner table! I do not understand why people would do that to an animal that gives unconditional love.

    Laura

  56. ohh it’s pretty cute considering……..yeh, i personally don’t think looks matter so Kenny is pretty lucky that he was exepted for what he is.

  57. I love him so much!!! He’s SOOOO much cuter than normal tigers! He looks like a bulldog and I love bulldogs!!

  58. Zacharias says

    Calsifer, unless you’re some kind of credible expert, a zoologist, or some kind of tiger expert, please shut up. Stop using big words to sound smart. Why does it matter if white tigers aren’t normal? They’re still beautiful animals and should be allowed to live a good life. I don’t care how unnatural any creature is. It won’t sway my mind of thinking that they are a gorgeous creature. I love how you’re crapping all over people who try to help tigers.

  59. Zacharias,
    You like to ASSume and shoot your mouth off instead of taking the time read, don’t you?

    I would ask you where in the blog entry or comments did I even say the already-born white tigers shouldn’t be allowed to live as a good a life as they should get, but by your comment “Why does it matter if white tigers aren’t normal? They’re still beautiful animals and should be allowed to live a good life“, I know it’s pointless because you shot your mouth off without reading it, just like Brian Werner, Executive Director Tiger Missing Link Foundation, whose shot from the hips comment just put a big question over his reading ability too.

    Be careful how you insult others, because you could end up insulting yourself, like here.

    But I can play, Faux Expert Decreer Zacharias. For eg, by using your own words, Zacharias: It won’t sway my mind of thinking that something that doesn’t help the tigers at all and in fact promote irresponsible breeding and greed is WRONG. I LOVE how you’re crapping all over a valid viewpoint without reading and/or understanding the issues or my stance.

    BTW, there is such a thing called QUOTE, and its close friend is REFERENCE. With their help, I have added in credible expert opinions, in the blog entry, and in replying to comments, especially ones like yours, Zacharias. Welcome to the information age.

    Does anyone need to be a mathematician to be able to put two and two together? Who died and put you in charge of decrees? Since you are effectively decreeing that anybody not an “expert” should keep their mouths shut… wait does that mean YOU, ZACHARIAS, is an expert of sorts? But you sure don’t seem to be a tiger expert, so by what authority are you making your statements and ordering me to keep my mouth shut?

    I’m curious, Zacharias. Do you put your foot in it on a regular basis, so much so you don’t even feel it anymore?

    Sadly for the tigers, you’re so not unique in your blinkered view, just late to the fray, Zacharias. Go ahead, feel the love. So don’t be shy, join the club, the vehement-defenders-of-something-I-don’t-get-at-all corner is over there, with the Siegfried and Roy lovers.

  60. i cant believe people still do that! its terrible! Poor Kenny and Willie

  61. while i agree that inbreedin should not be allowed and its effects are horrific, this would be a far more credible and reliable if someone with knowledge on zoology and genetics put forth this argument.

  62. paul,
    What a contradiction of statements, are you here to discredit or concur? You believe what I’m saying and thus “inbreedin should not be allowed and its effects are horrific” and yet you say “this would be a far more credible and reliable if someone with knowledge on zoology and genetics put forth this argument”.

    Anyone who is able to read and have read up on the topics is “someone with knowledge”, I’ve done my basic reading. Anyone with access to the relevant books or the net is “someone with knowledge”. Besides, I’ve quoted experts – someones with a lot knowledge. Oh wait, maybe you’re Zacharias‘ friend – a member of the Conclusion Jumpers and Assumptions guild

  63. I don’t know what’s the better option for me to take — laugh and lament at how you guys squawk about the evil Homo Sapien Empire while doing nothing to help this Kenny any, due to inherent human powerlessness, or kill the poor bastard to end its misery.

  64. Dumbass prinny,
    I have no doubts about my options, and I fully agree with your choice of a name. The only thing that you got right.

  65. Hi Calsifer!

    I just wanted to know if you would be kind enough to send me an e-mail addy where I can write to you directly if I ever wanted to? My e-mail addy is [edited out] and I truly love your site! I look at your site almost daily and I check the blog on kenny often! Keep up the awesome work that you do, I wish others cared as much for cats as you did!

  66. Hi there,
    THank you for supporting tec =)

    I have replied to you via email, and edited out your email addy … going by some of the comments here, I think it’s safer not to have that in the open.

  67. Now I have one thing to say im fairly young and im not going to go shooting my trap off before thoroughly reading this so *AHEM I support Calsifer on a job well done reasearching the facts and providing links for us to examine our selves. It is too bad most of you have all of a sudden shot your mouths off to defend frauds. I myself have reasearched this to the point I was near heart break for such inbreeding. I am DISGUSTED by it and the zoo in Washington D.C which i have talked to indeed agree that ALL white tigers are inbred and so i have to say why the heck do you people not ASK THEM for the REAL info on these pathetic crossbred and inbred beasts Calsifer i have said my peace pleas E-mail me.

  68. Akmu,
    Thank you for doing your reseach and forming your own views. That’s all I hope for – that people think and see, not accept what is spoon-fed to them.

  69. Samantha UK Girl

    I wish every living thing in life lives life to the full, In my mind humans & animals should never endure in pain or suffering. It is truly heartbreaking to think any living thing in this world gets mistreated and it aint right. To people out there who kill dogs, cats, lions, tigers, bears, polar bears, panda bears gorillas and so on for the fur or meat are disgusting. If i had my way the people who commit these crimes deserve……..i just cant write it on here cause in my opinion what i would want to happen to them people is quite horrible and i hate the people who go out there way to hurt any animal its so wrong. This world has been around long enough to realize its such a cruel world, I am only 20 and i cant stand hearing bout animal cruelty or anything. Most or the worlds population would be against whats going on in most places. Sometime when i am reading the paper on a sunday in the uk i sometimes cant go to the middle cause it would have this page which is trying to get poeple to sign a pertition against animal cruelty but the pictures kill me i just ball my eyes out. Looking at kenny does brake my heart in 2 but he is still a animal and godbless his heart he has gorgeous eyes…….! i would like to add i read some of your comments and u are all sticking up for what u believe. Everyone has the right to say how they feel. I aint a clever person really and i dont use professional words but i knw whats right from wrong and now we are in 2007 inbreeding went out many years ago now it should not happen with humans now animals. For mine and every living thing on this earth i hope things change i hope may be one day there will be no cruelty or need to kill anything.

    even though kenny still might be bite my head of ha ha i would love to give him a hug. May be someone should get involved with the lion man based in new zealand he is brilliant and has done a wonder for many white lions and tigers and so on…… Zion who featured in NARNIA the film is based in his LION park and its like wow he can just be around him hug him and Zion loves it cause the is that trust there & sometimes brings a tear to my eye. No need to argue people lets just hope for these animals sake things change……i truly hope.

  70. Samantha Girl,
    My problem with Zion is that they also labelled the white tigers they’ve got as the “Royal White Bengal tigers” and an “endangered” species. At least that was what I saw on their website the last time I checked, 2 years back. And at the same time, an acquiantance who supported them wrote to enquire about how they got their white tigers — no replies!

    Make of it what you will.

  71. That is one ugly and deformed in-bred tiger. NO JOKE!

  72. Calsifer, please remember that being nasty does not win you any friends, rather it discredits you.

    Ive read a lot of posts about how all inbreeding is wrong and would like to point out that inbreeding is common among many wild species, especially cats. Of course this is not done to the horriffic extent of man made breeding programs.

  73. calsifer you blab on a bit to much really dont ya!!! from all the comments on here your name features a million times ure always trying to argue back and argue your thought across…..people have there own opionion’s! at the end of the day i have respect for any individual in this world who goes out of there way to help any animal in need of help etc.. ….
    I aint arguing but in my view it shouldnt happen but it does i wish i could change that but who am i….i dont have the power to do that. I feel for these animals i mean they aint exactly going to turn around and say why’s my face like this and so on. These people who feel they have the power to inbreed animals are sick minded it just aint right. I think u should let people have the right to say how they feel and in my eyes all u have done is try to argue back each time.
    I mean in most cases if inbreeding happens in the wild no one is there to stop that and it aint man kind making it happen but in cases where man is making it happen really shoudl be punished. Calsifer dont argue back cause really no matter how much u go on it aint going to change what i think. BUT INSTEAD OF ARGUING DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT …….

  74. Tiger Lover,
    That’s the problem – it is NO JOKE

    Nero,
    Can a guest insult the host and expect the host to take his hostility and nonsense quietly with no response? Since you do not notice, let me tell you: I only return in kind. I’m not doing this to win friends, but to highlight a problem that most people don’t seem to care or want to know about.

    You said: “Ive read a lot of posts about how all inbreeding is wrong and would like to point out that inbreeding is common among many wild species, especially cats. Of course this is not done to the horriffic extent of man made breeding programs.”

    Last I read, nature has its own way of dealing with that, and nature does so to ensure genetic diversity and the continued viability of a species, so long as it can keep up with the tests nature throws it.

    Samantha,
    What a change in tone from your previous comment! You are sensitive and have a penchant for taking personal offense, don’t you?

    Since you seem to have missed the fact, I just want to point out that this is my blog, and I authored this post. It is my prerogative whether I allow comments here, and since I do, it is my prerogative whether I respond to comments here and how I respond. I’ve not deleted any comments at all – that’s the whole point of allowing them, but that doesn’t mean I will allow bigoted comments to stand without responding.

    BTW, regarding your statement: “I mean in most cases if inbreeding happens in the wild no one is there to stop that and it aint man kind making it happen but in cases where man is making it happen really shoudl be punished.” Like I said to Nero, nature has its own ways to manage inbreeding in the wild. But I do agree with you that in cases where it’s man-made, it should be punished – the sad reality is it is not so.

    You insist you’re not going to change your mind. That’s your prerogative, your right, but it is definitely not your right to come here and dictate what I should or should not do on my blog, Samantha. I will not take the defeatist attitude and not argue back when it’s bigoted views being perpetuated, and certainly not when the agitators did not even show the basic decency to at least READ the post before they fire at will and aimlessly.

    You say “i wish i could change that but who am i….i dont have the power to do that” and end your rant by saying “BUT INSTEAD OF ARGUING DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT …” I don’t have to answer this, but I will say this: I wish I could change it too, and I have done something despite being powerless – I’ve read up, formed my view and realising how hoodwinked the public is about this crime, made this post to help more people see. What have YOU done?

  75. The link in the article to CrackleCaracal’s YouTube video no longer works, the account has been banned. Is there another site to view this?

    Thank you

  76. Rachel,
    Thanks for letting us know. She’s moving her vids to here it seems: http://www.veoh.com/userVideos.html?username=CrackleCaracal

    Also, she’s got her own website here: http://www.freewebs.com/cracklecaracal/

    I’ve also updated the blog entry with this info. Thanks again!

  77. I think the in breading is wrong, but not everyone you mention is trying to breed white tigers. I think it should all be natural, but the society likes white tigers, and there’s money in it for them. There’s really not much you can do.

  78. Papa Smurf,
    Which side are you on? Fence-sitting is bad for the seat of your red pants.

    There’s always been stuff for which people couldn’t do much either, like eating tuna for which dolphins die. Or factory farming which is uber cruelty to famr animals. But hey, there’s now dolphin-safe tuna, and organic farming, and even vegetariinism.

    There’s not much I can do about the white-tiger sham, but there’s not nothing either. One of the things I can do and did is get off the fence.

  79. Calsifer,

    I happened upon this site while checking for updates on the recent tiger mauling at the San Francisco Zoo. I thank my lucky stars for this random discovery. The plight of big cats, both in the wild and in captivity, has long held my interest but I was completely unaware of the horrific perversion of natural tiger reproduction that caused white tigers. Thank you for bringing this issue to light.

    I worry, however, about the tone of some of your responses to those who have posted unfavorably to your original post. In no way am I defending these people but it is clear that they are speaking simply from a lack of knowledge rather than maliciousness. Their ignorance is understandable given the somewhat technical nature of the evidence supporting the white tiger issue (i.e., recessive genes, genetic mutations, natural selection) and the sheer amount of ambiguity on websites purporting to support tiger conservation.

    For example, (and I realize I’m beating a dead horse with this Siegfried and Roy reference) the S and R website presents deliberately misleading information regarding their “Royal White Tigers” and “Magical White Lions.” They present these animals as bona fide subspecies of the panthera tigris and panthera leo species. I quote: “Siegfried & Roy’s efforts have brought the species back from the brink of total extinction.” Take that with the Cincinnati Zoo (sadly one of the top 5 zoos in the country, according to the website) which says “The white tiger is not a separate tiger species nor is it an albino.” Of course they fail to include information on how the white tigers are inbred to multiply. The point is that with all this contradicting/ambiguous information, it is little wonder that most people are left confused.

    It’s actually quite sad. In many ways, S and R remind me of animal hoarders. I’m sure that in their minds, they truly believe they’re doing good work and “saving” these vulnerable animals who have very few means of protection. You see the same thing with people who run dilapidated “sanctuaries” that keep wild animals in deplorable conditions. I think these people manage to convince themselves they have a true connection with these animals that will magically protect them from harm. But adopting a superior attitude of protector WITHOUT respecting the awe-inspiring wild and unpredictable power of these creatures will only land you in deep trouble (case in point, Roy geting mauled a few years back). The reality is that these kinds of people are only hurting the individual animals they claim to care for and damaging the larger cause that so many other credible animal welfare advocates devote their lives to.

    Alright, I realize I’m rambling. I suppose I am merely suggesting that taking a less hostile, less condescending approach might make these clueless people less defensive and more open to taking the time to discover the actual truth.

    In any case, thank you again for bringing this issue to my attention. I will definitely never look at white tigers the same way. Keep up the good work and happy new year!

  80. sleepyjean23,
    Thanks, both for understanding what we’re trying to do here and for leaving a comment that’s obviously had some thought, and research, invested. And thanks to for sharing your insightful and interesting view on the people who are perpetuating the “White Tiger IS AN ENDANGERED species” lie.

    I understand your view about my comment responses. While it may not look so, I am perfectly happy to discuss; I also agree, in general, with your view that “taking a less hostile, less condescending approach might make these clueless people less defensive and more open to taking the time to discover the actual truth.”

    However, as I’ve said before, I also respond in kind. If you have the time to take a second look at all the comments, , from the beginning of time as it were, you might see that initially, I tried to reason with the hostile/ignorant comments by posing questions and raising points of contention for the commentors’ study. What did they come back with? Heels dug-in platitudes defending their misguided views. These people even got their friends to come in guns blazing. Would they really put down their weapons and TRY to see the truth of the issue for what it is?

    Others just seem to read only what they want to read, or otherwise misread or skipped the salient points, and then they go and put their mouths in it. I admit I have no patience with this ilk.

    Still, I do appreciate that you are one of the few rational voices to speak up about this, so I thank you for that.

    Happy new year to you too!

    PS: I had also considered leaving the comments as is, or turning the comment feature off. But then, I felt it would be worse to do so, and let the hostile/ignorant hordes to think they’ve thumbed their noses successfully at the problem. Sometimes I still wish I can listen to practicality and turn the damn comment feature off, and save my head some aches.

  81. Pingback: White Tigers, revealed « Kitty Mowmow’s Animal Expo

  82. A former Mirage employee writes testimony: “I worked at the Mirage for 6 years and saw poor Gildah on a frequent basis. In that time, about 10 of my letters to the editor were published in various Vegas papers. There was also at least one op-ed piece about her. Several times I knew people who picketed her performances. Siegfried and Roy are a multi-million dollar production and they and their staff live lavishly while their animals (the “products” that have made them rich and famous) languish. The white tigers are their meal ticket and main attraction and they do get exercise and at least can interact with others of their own species. Poor Gildah is all alone and always chained when not in view. Her handlers always carried a hideous device in their hand which they would hit upon Gildah’s trunk. I have seen this, because I was physically in the hotel and corridors because I worked there. In fact, I became an elephant “activist” solely because of what I witnessed with Gildah. She is a gentle, dear soul and I looked into her eyes and saw such pain and loneliness. They would allow kids to throw pennies and dimes at her and sometimes people would throw baseballs at her, which would hit in on the flank and head. It’s so sad! I have seen Gildah hundreds of times. She is lonely, chained and miserable. Her diet consists of dried hay and in the summer, they occasionally gave her some watermelon and some kind of yellow mush. I have written and demanded her release for years. Siegfried and Roy treat their tigers no better. They are on display in a glass booth in the hotel for one hour a day, the rest of the time they are forced into tiny cages. All of this makes my heart bleed!”

  83. Please go to YouTube and search for a documentary titled
    From Animal Showboat to Animal Lifeboat” and watch it!

  84. RIP Tatiana,
    Thank you for sharing that brave soul’s experience. I will search for the vid and add the url to your last comment. I will also look to creating another post for Gildah, as I’ve done for Tyke.

  85. In case you people somehow do not know, Gildah passed away in 2004. Roy couldn’t even be told at the time because he was still too critical from his stroke.
    It’s hard to believe this discussion is still on-going after all this time, particularly involving S&R. For whatever “crime” all of you seem to believe he & Siegfried have committed don’t you think they’ve been sufficiently punished by Roy’s stroke and forced retirement?
    Their hearts were in the right place, whether or not their breeding program was correct in your eyes.
    I say give them a break and let them, and Gildah, rest i peace now.

  86. LV,
    In case you somehow haven’t noticed, it wasn’t just Gildah who was a victim of the charade run by that pair. The facts about white tigers are out there and S&R’s “endangered” white tiger “project” is still on-going.

    It’s up to you to SEE and think about it for yourself. And in case you haven’t noticed, I did not put the duo in my post – that they keep popping up in the comments suggests something… think about it. And maybe you should remember that they were introduced here by your fellow Roy and Siegfreid sympathiser, hoping to put a halo on their heads, just as you seem to be trying to do..

    More importantly, LV, please explain: how does it make all that’s wrong right or mitigate all that Gildah had to endure during her miserable life just because she’s dead, and one of the duo is injured?

    Gildah may be dead, but there’s no stopping discussion because people can still see something wrong in the way she was treated. Tyke‘s been dead more than 13 years, and people still talk about her tragedy.

    Just as you insist on describing what the duo did or condone as ‘”crime”‘ without first trying to learn, without prejudice, more about what happened, you can’t stop people from discussing Gildah.

  87. Thank you, here is our Memorial for Tyke.

    http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=524&pst=9553&archival=&posts=147

    And we have one or a few for Tatiana, “LiKE TYKE.”

    And like Tatiana, Montecore, a white tiger mutant acted on instinct and attacked Roy.

    these animals should NOT be kept in cages. they are trying to tell us something.

  88. LV, since S&F were owned by FELD Entertainment, you can bet your bottom dollar there was crime going on. Go to CNN and search for spanky the child porn clown, go to salon.com and search and read in full, “The Greatest Vendetta on Earth.

  89. Educate thyself …

    and this thread is still going on because I posted to it, I may be late coming in, only because it was just brought to my attention yesterday. Kenny is yet another innocent victim of human ignorance.

  90. RIP Tiana,
    Thanks for coming back and providing more info and links (hav edited your comments to add the links). Much appreciated.

    BTW, Thanks for the link to the Tyke memorial. It brings back memories… esp of my education about the extensiveness of entertainment animal abuse. Been a while since I returned to care2.com. Good to see the ele groups still active. =)

  91. I would love to recieve an email from whoever wrote this because they need to be educated. The white tiger originated from other species of tiger. They lived, and some still do today, live much further north than any other species of tiger and its fur is white not through in-breeding, but because it has adapted to camouflage itself in snow. There is much more than sufficient scientific evidence to back this up. Some tigers have defficiencies, not through ill treatment or being bred with other species of tiger but for the same reason as pandas are hard to breed; elevated stress levels caused by being captive. However, if they were not captive this species would certaily be extinct now. Many tiger species are hunted by un educated people from third world countries who do not they are making these beautiful animals extinct. Having studied tigers for over 2 years, not to mention having degrees in many aspects of science i think i can say you are very well un-educated. You need to find some true information and actually write something that isnt rubbish. I think this is the most idiotic thing ive ever heard. Feel free to email me at danny76020@aol.com. I would love to give you some education.

  92. Danny,
    That’s the funniest comment I’ve seen here. So many degrees of comedic aspects in it. Thanks for a good early morning laugh.

    Apologies, but I can’t bring myself to requit your email love-you’re just not my type, and frankly, worth neither time nor effort.

    P.S. It may be a shock to your uber-educated brain, but this wiki entry about white tigers, has a higher credibility quotient than all that your “degrees in many aspects of science ” together could ever hope to aspire to.

  93. Good God –

    Whilst I am a simple animal lover, not a scientist nor tiger expert, I can at least spell and use grammar correctly, unlike Danny, and some of the other self-proclaimed “experts/professionals.”

    Calsifer, I came across this post by accident, and am glad to have been enlightened by it. Sadly, hearing about such tactics as Sigfried & Roy’s does not surprise me one bit, really.

    I would suggest to you that you not even bother with the comments left by those morons in clear opposition and with their own self interests at heart. Do not cast pearls before swine, it’s a waste of time.
    For my part, I will have left your site having taken even more of an interest and make inquiries at the local zoo I frequently visit – and pass the word.

    Cheers, and good luck

  94. Rogue,
    Thank you for giving this some of your time, and for giving us encouragement. It’s a wonderful but rare thing to see: Logic and reason in the comments on this post. =)

  95. I do have one question through this whole thing. You have very strong and opinionated ideals about this whole issue (and mind you I am on you side of this whole arguement). I just wanted to know where you first came across this topic?

  96. Dustin,
    Same way most people do, I suspect: you like them, you try to find out more about them, you start googling and WHAM!

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  98. HOW SAD ) ~ :

  99. i feel bad for kenny..
    thats just horrible.
    but he is adorable, no matter what ppl say.
    and he is lucky to be alive and able to go on with it,
    even if its not all we hoped for, for the poor guy.

    kenny has really touched me.

    currently in a veterinary careers class in osc :]
    [junior in highschool]
    so im still learning about all of this.
    i have no imput and i admit i dont know any of this.
    so its been interesting reading your guys’ conversation.

    but i think there should be less fighting and more coming together and trying to understand eachother of why we all may think what we think.

    ease up a little calsifer..
    your showing an ugly side :/

  100. Tawnee,
    I am glad you’re learning something out of this.

    Let me tell you something though, since it’s not apparent to you and many others: there’ll always be fighting because people DON”T WANT TO SEE. They just want to assert their truth. It’s an affliction of the condition called being human.

    This ugly side you accuse me of showing is a function of that, a reflection of some of the comment-leavers here.

  101. Sibylle Boesch

    I found this website just by coincidence since I was looking for some general information about tigers.

    I saw Kenny’s picture and thought at first that the photographer had taken it at a very strange angle. I’ve never seen a tiger like this before and didn’t know that animals with such a deformity were able to survive!

    Here on the “old continent” we’ve heard about Siegfried & Roy and their white tigers but I’ve never realised that these animals are bred on such a large scale.

    Continue with your excellent work, informing people all over the world about the attrocities our human race sadly commits.

    Greetings from Luxemburg (Europe), Sibylle

  102. Sibylie,
    As a fellow tiger-info searcher who stumbled onto the truth, thank you for taking the time to think about Kenny and his fellow victims of the White Tiger Fraud.

  103. laydeeliike;;diiamondzs

    i was on google looking for a picture for a white tiger when i stumbled across this picture. i was very intrested in finding out why it looked like this so i clicked on it. I feel very terriable bouh kenny. when i first saw his picture i was all like EWW but now i know his story and hope he will live A LONG LiiF3

    =’ )

  104. i think that this poor inocent tiger is the cutest thing! :) sure it is defored but thats wat makes it special! people say that he he gross and descusting but really he is just different…im sure that he still acts like a normal tiger would act but he just doesnt look the same and thats ok! good luck kenny! i hope that u have a nice healthy and long life!

  105. i think its really mean when people are saying it is disgusting because its not its falt its deformed!!!

  106. It looks like something that genetic scientist in south park would have made.

  107. I am a fan of white tigers, I think they are beautiful. However, I was very appalled to find out how they were created. I am saddened by the life that Kenny has to live because of his inbreeding. I still think that he is a beautiful animal as well. I would hate to see white tigers perish, however, I dont think they should continue to be inbreed and have so many be lost due to deformities or stillbirth.

  108. God, I haven’t even been able to finish reading this thread, just wanted to voice my frustrations. I get what you are saying Calsifer! I had no idea that the white tiger was not actually a species, and it has disgusted me to no end to how they are bred and the public – like myself – have been so misguided. The point is that all tigers need to be protected, and that to perpetuate the myth of the necessary conservation of white tigers is criminal. I wish more people knew. Inbreeding these poor animals is wrong full stop. It doesn’ matter if they are treated nicely in the process! The poor victims of this trade most definitely have the right to live a peaceful life – when the Calsifer say they didn’t?????

    I would love to say more but I am afraid at 1am it would just come out the wrong way. I am no expert and have only just come across this site tonight. Up until I read it I thought white tigers where a species in there own right. I will pass this new knowledge on. Calsifer thanks for making me aware. And to anyone else, please read what he has actually said before putting up stupid posts that say he is attacking the tigers themselves etc etc etc.

  109. Oh PS and Paul…

    WTF????

    That was just a retarded comment, you don’t need a degree to put up a valid point or be credible. Not to say Calsifer or Laura or anyone else who has made a valid arguement doesn’t; I just don’t see why they would be any less credible?

  110. Elsie,
    Thank you for reading the whole thing through, thinking about it, and getting it. Usually when I see an emotional comment here, it’s incoherent, doesn’t make sense, or miss the point entirely. But yours, as rich with emotion as any of those others that had gone before, is the first to show you do get it. I appreciate the time you took to do so =)

    I am no expert either, but I believe we can all learn. The important thing is to decide what to do with the knowledge gained. Thanks for passing on the truth about the tigers’ plight.

  111. Hi Calsifer,

    Just popping in to tell ya that I still read posts on your website and surf around your website almost every week! I love checking up on all the “tipped ear clannies” and I am amazed there are so many people out there that are still misinformed about the “white tiger fraud” out there today.

    Keep your chin up and take care of yourself and all the “tippies” out by you!

    Huggles,

    Laura O.

  112. uhh you guys do know that the white tiger was never a species, it was a birth defect, like an albino tiger, its a 2nd recessive gene, so they inbreed to get more em, because they look nice, but yeah infact every white tiger is a defect, all of them are also crosseyed, some blind, mental retardation ect

  113. Laura,
    Great know know you’re hanging around. Thanks! =)

  114. That is sad that people inbreed the white tiger, it is a beautiful animal, but if inbreeding it is the only way to have more I say there shouldn’t be any on this earth at all. When people inbreed these amazing animals they don’t relize that they are really not helping the animal; the more you inbred these animals, the more cubs that are born are dieing. So if you have read this, please comment, and tell me do you feel the same way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    P.S.: keep in mind anybody can help these animals!!!!!!

  115. OMG.. persian tiger..

  116. :)

  117. <3

  118. amy rivera

    I totally understand where you are coming from especially since people seem to think it is ok to breed animals like that as if they don’t have lives of their own

  119. i think kenny is the cutest thing in the world
    i really would like to help and meet him one day

  120. hey, just wanted to say i support your cause whole heartedly. i dont know anything about these Sigfried & Roy fellas but it sounds to me as if they arent doing such a great job. i myself didnt know white tigers werent a species and i am so glad i have now been enlightened! i feel so sad for kenny and willie and all other nameless disfigured white tigers that have been inbred for their looks and peoples entertainment but did not make the cut, so to speak. i would hate to think what has happened to them. its sad to think that things i once thought were simply black and white (excuse the pun) have so many shades of grey. people have no reason to think that what they learn is untrue. im glad there are people out there like you to shed light on the great lie the world has been told. thanks!

  121. I have not heard so much misinformation written in quite some time. I testified against Big Cat Rescues “Expert” when he was convicted and sentenced for stealing white tiger cubs for export, and drug charges. Will look forward to you visiting my blog.
    Wade Burck

  122. Sarah,
    You’re welcome. Learn what you can and form your own opinion, but do not be hoodwinked. That’s the important thing.

    Mr Burck,
    Misinformation in what regards? Obviously you have not read the whole thing.

    I have visited your blog, and noted the white tiger post you had there since 2006 – if this post of mine is “so much misinformation”, then so is yours.

    Interestingly, the theme of your blog does not clearly tell me where your empathies lie and so I’ve also done a google search on you. It’s very interesting to note the type of links that pop up with the simple search term “Wade Burck”, and I quote some of the ones l believe more in:

    Many of the white tigers trained at Ringling Circus by Wade Burck’s are claimed to be hard of hearing.

    From messybeast‘s “WHITE TIGERS
    INBREEDING DEPRESSION & GENETIC ANOMALIES”

    The law suit seeks damages from Hawthorn Corp. and tiger trainer Wade Burck for medical bills and pain and suffering.

    … In May 2004, Hawthorn Corp. admitted to 14 animal-welfare violations and agreed to pay a $200,000 fine and remove the elephants from the property.

    From The Elephant Sanctuary‘s“Lawsuit Triggered By Tiger Attack “

    There’s more of course, but I think I’ve got a pretty good idea. You are intimately associated with the circus, Ringling Brothers and the infamous Hawthorne Corp. However, I also note the info on Dr. Daniel C Laughlin’s conviction, the zoology expert which Big Cat Rescue works with, in your blog, I note the interesting fact that you and him seem to run in the same circles.

    Again, I note the controversy surrounding Carole Lewis Baskin, founder of Big Cat Rescue, which I’ve already noted earlier. (NOTE to readers: research and make your judgment calls on the comments and resources provided in the comments. Landmins are everywhere!)

    But I must thank you, Mr Burck. Your visit here has shown me that it is highly urgent to revamp this post… With the vital caveat that should remain important to every compassionate person out there that the way the world has gotten its captive white tiger population is a crying shame and a very unsavoury but true reflection of human nature; that despite the flaky nature of the people associated even with white tiger rescue efforts, the science, the genetics behind the captive white tiger population remains true.

    All the tigers of the world, white or normal, need help, to be rescued from humans exploiting and driving them to extinction at the same time.

  123. i feel bad for kenny cause everyone says he is ugly.
    he is not.
    he is cute in his own way.
    like we all are.
    we have our unique characteristics, just like kenny.

  124. I am ashamed of people doing this. I find all animals beautiful rather they’re “ugly” or “pretty”, who cares if they dont “have the right face” , they are like models! Never perfect, pushed aside if they “dont have the look” I’m sickend by the thought..

    From my heart to yours
    Cassie against animal Cruelty!

    Let Willie and Kenny be hero’s!

    Peace and Love,
    XxOoCassieoOxX

  125. Wow, I didn’t know there was such an ordeal with the breeding of white tigers, but I’m not the least bit suprised. It’s amazing how deceptive and gullible people can be. I just wonder how many different breeds people have made that disregard the animal’s own health or result in many failures. I bet that’d be an long list.

  126. Hi this is very sad, I felt so much sadness for this poor tiger. Thankfully he has good people to care for him now, it’s just a shame that the public have to be around him, because they can be so cruel and he needs his own space poor thing.

  127. Kenny died 6/27/08 at the Turpentine Animal Rescue from a melanoma in his lower abdomen. They removed what they could in April but it was too pervasive and Kenny passed a few months later.

  128. If you guys even had the sense to understand what these beautiful animals have to go through to make them so beautiful or not…You would understand, But since you have not done your research then fine so be it…but one one day when your most beloved animal in the whole earth goes through some tough stuff like breeding to their moms and dads and siblings and you don’t want them than maybe one day you will understand!!!

  129. Wow, I never knew. I guess cuz I never did research on it. But It’s just amazing how it could even done without any guilt or break down. Just shows how cruel we as humans can be.

  130. That “tiger” in the photo is actually a white LIGER.

    His photo is on display at the Big Cat Rescue in Tampa, Florida. He’s a prime example of the genetic defects resulting from hybrid breeding, sadly he seems to have gotten EVERY defect possible.

  131. This photo of Kenny is rare only because the breeders who exploit white tigers will almost never let the public see them. I have been in MANY of the breeding facilities across the country and can tell you from my own personal experience that many of the white tigers used as breeders are in as bad, or much worse condition than this poor cat. I have seen eyes placed way out on the nose, holes in skulls, club feet where the foot is completely twisted up and backwards or growing out of the side. If Kenny’s photo makes you want to cry, you haven’t seen anything yet, and probably never will, because the breeders will kill them before letting the public see their atrocious practice. There is NO reason to breed tigers for life in cages and especially not white tigers. Carole Baskin, Founder of Big Cat Rescue Tampa, FL

  132. Hello, I LOVE and APPRECIATE you helping spread the word about the white tiger issue!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH for caring enough to take action. Animals have no voice unless someone cares enough to give them one. YOU are doing that!!! THANK YOU!!! The opening close-up photo of Kenny is my photo, I took it in 2004. It would have been appropriate for you to give a photo credit or photographer’s link with the photo. Since you are using the photo as a way to further expose the Truth About White Tigers I have no objection to the use of the photo in this instance. Spreading the truth about white tigers is a major passion of mine and I sincerely do appreciate your hard work in doing that. That particular photo has been published internationally. Kenny is such an amazing spokescat for the truth about white tigers. In 2004 I also made a computer storybook that kids can type their name into and become part of the storybook. It also explains the white tiger issue. AGAIN THANK YOU for speaking out to expose the truth about white tigers!! Would you like a link to that for your website as well?

  133. hey i am bored what about u guys oh and white deformed tigers are so cute…….lol

  134. i think clasifier ( the one with the cat as a picture is so mean to white tigers he/it should not be allowed to type unless he/it changes his attitude

  135. Hi Calsifer,

    I hope you do not mind me copying and pasting a letter I wrote over a year ago, but since this thread is still going I thought even though it is old, it is still up to date and important:

    Laura, on May 16th, 2007 at 11:33 am Said:
    I just wanted to tell you that I support you in trying to bring to light the horrors of inbreeding of tigers to try to “produce” the white tiger. Since white tigers are do NOT naturally occur often, they are inbred in an attempt to “produce” the white tiger to fill the publics appetite for something “different” to look at. I have been to Turpentine Creek many times and have seen Kenny myself many times, along with all the OTHER neglected tigers and lions and other animals who are there. One breeder alone had 47 tigers removed from their facility. Turpentine Creek was able to take some of those unwanted animals in. Turpentine Creek gets calls all the time to take in unwanted BIG CATS. Until the US sets better laws regarding the sale and breeding of exotic animalls there will continue to be a problem with exotics. Turpentine Creek does NOT breed ANY of its animals, they let the animals live out thier lives as peacefully as possible and they recieve excellent care. Right now I have a picture of Numa-Kurlee a lion that lives at Turpentine Creek on my desk and pictures of other cats from there around my office on the walls. Numa-Kurlee was the only one of a litter of 3 cats to survive. There are many cats like him living there and each one has a story. I encourage anyone who thinks that in-breeding of exotics for human entertainment is somehow “saving the species” to look at Turpentine Creeks website and read each story about each animal living there and how they were treated and why they were brought into this world to begin with. White Tigers ARE the result of inbreeding today, there hasn’t been many “natural” births in the world of white tigers and since they are NOT a breed in and of themselves…. SAVING the white tiger makes no sense at all since the white tiger is NOT a breed but a mutation! (granted a pretty mutation, but a mutation non the less!)

    Copied from wikipedia “Stage magicians Siegfried and Roy also own snow white tigers and were the first to attempt to breed selectively for stripelessness.”

    Another site lists: Siegfried and Roy’s breeding program, now operating on three continents, has increased the number of white lions from a mere two to 23, and the number of white tigers from a handful to more than 200.

    Now, however, they are billed as Royal White Tigers or Snow Tigers or other fanciful names. They have been transformed from essentially a freak of nature into an “endangered species.” There are no endangered white tigers in the natural world clinging to a precarious existence. There are plenty in captivity, along with a few white lions, who have always been no more than a novelty or publicity draw for their owners. The white tiger is a chance mutation in the wild and in the US it is a FORCED mutation.

    Oh well running out of things to say, keep up the good work regarding the tragic story about the “white tiger” I wish all of you could actually go see Kenny and others at Turpentine Creek and see how many there are deformed “rejects” of the big cat trade. At least those cats that live there now, can live out the rest of their days in peace and actually put their feet on the grass and have the sun shine on them and have people who LOVE them care for them. Here is a link to read more about the sad story about exotics and those who love them and will care for them even though they have been abused, neglected and uncared for: http://www.turpentinecreek.org/NewSite/

    I hope you do not mind me copying and pasting, but the white tiger fraud means so much to me!

    Huggles to Calsifer and keep up the good work in taking care of all the Tipped Earred Kitties out your way!

  136. I would totally buy Kenny if I had the money. He’s awesome.

  137. Kayleigh McNeil

    I found this site totally by mistake by searching for white tigers, and after reading about it I’m totally heartbroken. I can’t believe how cruel and wrong this is. Although Kenny is a result of this, he’s still cute in his own way. But it really is wrong and should be stopped!

  138. I am new to this issue! We were in Old Town in Kissimmee FL last night and saw an exhibit of a “white tiger cub”. It was playing with a toy they called his “man” he was being kept on a table near a roller coaster under a tent. The table looked like it was covered in sweat and they were holding it down with what looked like nylon dog leashes. A crowd formed and at one point the sad looking Tiger tried to jump off the table and everyone panicked. There was only an orange plastic barrier, like at a construction or landscaping site. After this, the “handlers” took the poor animal around behind a tarp so people couldn’t see where he was restrained by everyone in the “handling” group. I am not a protester and I’ve never been involved in a movement like this… it was just a night out with my small daughter. I was near tears as we walked away. and yet.. people were still standing in line for photos. I took some pictures but I didn’t see any blantant abuse. What I saw was a group of people using a beautiful animal for their own gain, a group of on-lookers who could have been hurt by the lack of control they had over this clearly unhappy wild animal. This was like something I would expect to see at a cheap travelling roadside circus.. not in Old Town. I was very disappointed and saddened. Isn’t there anything that could be done, if not for the cat, for the public? Thanks!!! C

  139. ugly f!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • i think hes buitifull and eney one that dusnt is sick in the head he might not be perfect but no one is he has felings and may not be human but respect him like i respect people and be a good person i think hs funny and lovely and looks happy and healthy yhats wot i care about his helfh and the way he is treted xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx good looke baby i think ur the nicest white tiger iv seen xx(!!!)

  140. This is horrible and a crime aganst nature, there is no limit to the evil that humans are capable of.

    It’s hearbreaking to see an animal suffering like this, I feel it would be best to put an animal like this down to save them from a life of a horrible pain and confusion.

  141. I think Kenny is beautiful

  142. It’s absolutely shocking what people have turned these magnificent creatures into. When I was younger I used to think anyone who didn’t want to “conserve” white tigers was an evil beast, but I’ve long since learned the truth.

    No animal should have to suffer for “fashion”. Because that’s all this white tiger hype is – they’re beautiful when “proper” and so they’re fashionable. Ordinary tigers in need of help are shunted to the side to make way for these poor, damaged creatures that are bred only for their appearance, and which possibly suffer more under the greedy paws of humans than any other kind of big cat.

    Think about it people, there’s a REASON white mutations are so rare in the wild. With the white gene comes many other abnormalities and harmful defects that result in tigers along the line of Kenny, Willie and countless others even more damaged. (Personally, I think any tiger is beautiful and those two are no exception, but that’s beside the point. These animals are suffering for their beauty.) And even in the wild, if those defects don’t kill them, they -WILL- get them killed. How easy do you think it can be to hunt when everything sees you coming from miles off? When you have a coat like that, how long would it take for a hunter to spot you and decide you’d make a fantastic trophy? Other tigers may shun retarded whites and even kill them. A tiger that can’t “think properly” isn’t going to survive past cubhood in all likliness. A “slow” tiger might never learn how to properly hunt.

    It’s no fault of the tiger, it’s the people breeding them and cracking sob-stories left right and center. So, you want to “conserve” them? What for? You could never release them back into the wild, and unless I’m mistaken that’s the whole POINT in conservation programs. Unless a good sanctuary takes them they’re never going to be able to REALLY live. And even then they can’t live life to the fullest.

    And what happens to them when they don’t go to good sanctuaries? They end up in zoos to be gawked at, menageries to be stared at, hunting lodges to be gloated over, hunting FARMS to be shot down and killed senselessly, private owners who most probably don’t have a clue what they’re getting into, backyard breeders to bear cubs over and over again that will meet a fate just as dire in all likliness, circuses where they will suffer as a sideshow, attractions where they’ll be forced to jump through hoops and do tricks for the rest of their pitiful lives, and mabe if somebody is REALLY stupid… They’ll be released. Where they’ll have no chance of survival whatsoever.

    Assuming they’re not euthanised. I think it’s illegal, but I know somewhere, there are people who’d take a hammer to them or shoot them in an attempt to kill them just so THEY wouldn’t have to “put up” with the poor animals who are only the way they are through human interference.

    If we don’t want more to suffer we HAVE to STOP BREEDING THEM. How many times must we read about such beautiful animals getting abused and misused, shaking our heads sadly, before it finally gets hammered through our skulls? I don’t want to say they “shouldn’t exist”… But really… What have they to gain BY existing? I feel horrible saying it, as the tigers don’t deserve such an awful fate, but these tigers just aren’t RIGHT. They’re beautiful, yes, and not all might be retarded – but all of them suffer in one way or another and it shouldn’t be allowed. I’m not saying “LET’S KILL ALL ‘EM FREAKS!11!”, merely that we need to STOP BREEDING them for their problems to stop. This “species” has to be let go, as it really ISN’T a species.

    Shit. To think, this started out as a single paragraph.

    … Well, I’m hoping I got my point across anyway.
    Great article, by the way. Very insightful, it really exposes the plight of these tigers.

  143. i agree it’s horrable what people are doing to the snow tigers

  144. Having read all of the comments by blogger and readers, I have yet to see one letter that mentions how the tigers would in-breed naturally in the wild. No one has apparently thought of this, however. Animals don’t care if they are blood related when the urge to mate hits them. Males will mate with mother, sister, daughter–they don’t care. Of course, it is obvious that a “white” tiger is a genetic anomaly, and because they are so rare, they would be at a great disadvantage in the wild and normally not survive. But that is not to say that they have not been born in the wild, nor that they have not survived! They have, though very seldom. The important issue here is not that the tigers are being inbred, nor that some are kept in zoos, it is that they are gradually becoming extinct due to man’s hunting and killing of them. Should we allow this to happen? No, of course not. But what should be done?
    Animal preserves are the best bet, but they would have to be regularly patrolled to make sure that poachers are not depleting the animals to be saved. And when poachers are caught, severe penalties should be exacted. This isn’t just in regard to tigers, but to all animals that are slowly becoming endangered and all but extinct. Leave the white tigers, and white lions alone. Nature will take care of them one way or another. If they are meant to be born and to survive, they will. If not, they’ll die out due to natural selection. Survival of the fittest is the creed in this case. Regarding all the insults slung back and forth between blogger and readers–people, none of it is worthy of you. You have a right to your opinion–everyone has one, just like you have an anal oriface. However, it certainly isn’t always necessary to show it!

  145. Emma R,
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

    Roni Mendez,
    I find it fascinating that you get the tiger’s endangerment in the wild and animal conservation in general but miss the point entirely about captive white tiger breeding, which is what this post is about.

    You said it best, so allow me to use your words: “u have a right to your opinion–everyone has one, just like you have an anal oriface. However, it certainly isn’t always necessary to show it!”

  146. white tigers are so raer and beautifal to me and i hate people who hurt them and kill them and abuse them
    my faviorit things about the sancutarys is that its not
    like a zoo or any one who just breeds them for there unique colors and white tigers just dont have white tigers they also have the orage tigers i hate to see them go so extinct and i love the the sancutarys all over especilly the one in fortloption colorado the wrc if i could own tigers i would and just leave them at the sancuarys where there safe i have much love for white tigers and the other pretty animals out there

  147. This story made me cry. I love tigers. I feel so bad for the poor baby! It’s disgusting that people could harm these beautiful creatures. But I have to say that Kenny looks a little like a persian cat. But that poor tiger!!!!!! :( I hope he has a good life with his buddy!

  148. Pingback: Retarded Tiger? - INGunOwners

  149. I Think That He Is A Magnesifant Animal When I Grow Up I Want To Help White Tigers. They Are So Rare And Beautiful I Can’t See Why People Would Hurt Them. I Thin That Kenney Is A Beautiful Animal And He IS One Of Gods Creatoins I Just Almost Cry When I Think About It :( But I Love This Website And All Of the Information It Has So God Bless You All ;) (L)

  150. live, laugh, love

    man some of u guys SUCK!

    i mean we have no right to do any of this crud to such beautiful animals.

    the white tiger inbreeding program is garbage. especially when it does so much harm to such beautiful animals.

    when white tiger occur naturally i think that is a really cool thing. they are very rare creatures and so when they are born they are just that much more special.

    so i think all u people should just make sure u have all ur facts straight before u go shooting off ur mouth.

    WAY TO GO calsifer! thanks for spreading the truth man. people need to know what humans are doing to the beautiful creature of nature

  151. Billie-Dawn, :) Thank you.

    Live, Laugh, Love,
    Thanks for weighing in. Always good to have someone on the same side.

  152. live, laugh, love

    did u know that all white tigers are cross eyed. this is due to the fact that the gene that causes the white colouring of the fur also causes the optic nerve to bewired to the wrong side of the brain. this makes them far more dependent on their masters and thus easier to train for the purpose of entertaining humans.

    the inbreeding results in many defects, early deaths, still births and affects the tiger intellectual capacity. meaning they are not very bright. thus agina making them great for entertaining purposes.

    Consider this: Only 1 in 4 tiger cubs from a white tiger bred to an orange tiger carrying the white gene are born white, and 80% of those die from birth defects associated with the inbreeding necessary to cause a white coat. Of those surviving, most have such profound birth defects, such as immune deficiency, scoliosis of the spine (distorted spine), cleft palates, mental impairments and grotesquely crossed eyes that bulge from their skull that only a small percentage are suitable for display. Due to these birth defects the white tigers often die an early death. According to some tiger trainers, only 1 in 30 of those white cats will consistently perform. The number of tigers that have to be produced and disposed of in order to fill the public’s desire to see white tigers on display is staggering.

    and this is not acceptable people have no right to subject these beautiful creatures to such painful and demening forms of existance.

    so the next time u see a white tiger remeber the other 29 that never got a fair chance at life because of inbreeding.

  153. It may be true that white tigers are not in fact a species of tiger, but a mutation, but it a little harsh to consider them a fraud when they are still living breathing mammals. They may be part of a breeding programme, but why shouldn’t they be? They have a right now that they exist as a species.

  154. Cassie,
    Next time, shore up your pedestal before you step up on it.

  155. live, laugh, love,

    look Cassie it’s not the fact that its a breeding program that is the problem. the real problem is it’s an inbreeding program. in an inbreeding program they breed mother to son, father to daughter, grandparent to grandchild.

    that is just sick and wrong! and look at all the problems it causes for the poor tigers.

    Oh and by the way they shouldn’t exist as a species because they are not a species. they are albino, a mutation. i’m not saying they shouldn’t exist because i love white tigers but we should stop treating them as something they a not.

  156. live, laugh, love,
    Thanks for stepping in with such a succinct explanation for Cassie. I appreciate it very much as I really have no patience to deal with such comments at this point.

  157. Calsifer, thanks for your sincere maturity, I really appreciate that you are adult enough to show respect for opinions other than your own.
    And to live, laugh, love,
    how can you claim to ‘love’ white tigers when you are clearly expressing a view that says you are against their breeding and their status as a bonefied species? They did not choose to be inbred by the zoos and such holding them captive, therefore how can they be criticised for a crime they did not commit? Does this mean that hybrids and mutated animals have less right to live than you or I? I don’t think so. The fact that they are inbred is clearly disgusting, but it does not warrant claims such as yours that they should not be treated as a species?
    And just what entails mistreating these animals with titles of ‘species’. Do you truly believe the animals care if they are called white tigers or not? I don’t believe so. Therefore why should it matter so much to you if they are a species or not?
    And again to calsifer, or however that word is supposed to be written, I would like to point out that I am in no way supporting the inbreeding of animals. I’m merely saying that they’re here now and they should treated with as much respect as all other living creatures.

  158. Wow, it makes me sad to think what the human race is capable of.

    I still think he’s beautiful. A little different, but beautiful none the less.

  159. And to Cassie, I do understand what you are saying now. I read your last comment and you cleared it up for me. I too agree that they should be treated with as much respect as any other creature.

  160. Cassie,
    Thank you for clarifying your stance.

    However, I would like to ask for yourself, live, laugh, love, to step back and see that we are actually mostly in agreement, it’s just that each person’s opinion may not have been received as expected.

    Putting aside the definition of a species (which the white tiger is not, btw), let’s just think about the situation.

    Cassie, in your first comment for example, you do come across as someone who seems supportive of the white tiger in-breeding programme. You even said “a little harsh to consider them a fraud when they are still living breathing mammals”, even though nowhere in this blog post were the white tigers themselves called frauds, but rather the human perpetrators of the white-tiger-as-a-species myth and the ones who are in-breeding them.

    I am not going to apologise for my reply to your first comment, given the context of the long list of in-breeding supportive comments preceding it, and thus my perception of it.

    And I remain appreciative to live, laugh, love who bothered to try to address the apparent misconceptions your first comment contained in a reasonable and mature fashion. She was merely speaking to the in-breeding that takes place, rather than the natural occurrences of white tigers being born. I think I can speak for both her and myself that we are in no way opposed to the very natural process of mutation. But you seem to keep seeing objection and marginalisation of the tigers themselves in both her comments and my blog post, whether in-bred, in zoos, or living in the wild, which simply does not exist in neither live, laugh, love‘s comments nor my blog post.

    As for breeding white tigers, Cassie, I ask you please take a good hard logical look at the odds as I’ve explained in my blog post. There is just no way to artificially breed for white tigers in an ethical manner which is also viable. Given the current situation of public ignorance, recalcitrant white tiger in-breeders, and only 6,000 or less wild tigers in the entire world, any support for white tiger breeding will lend credibility to the despicable fraud the in-breeders are perpetrating. No matter how one does the math, the best bet for ensuring we have white tigers is to preserve the tiger species as a whole.

  161. Sarah,
    I totally agree with you – the human species’ ability to destroy and exploit makes me sick. The white tigers so bred deserves all our empathy and compassion.

    But, at the same time, the in-breeding that caused them to exist and suffer should not be condoned nor encouraged in any way. Please help spread the word. Thanks.

  162. Thank you Calsifer. I accept your apology and I also accept that we have a different perception of the situation. I agree TOTALLY that in-breeding these mammals and therefore CAUSING mutations and health problems for these beautiful animals is in fact, despicable and unforgivable. But I suppose my way of looking at things is different, as in I see the world as a harsh place, human kind being the harshest of all, and I believe that humans can have a part in nature. Obviously not in such a way that causes suffering, but in some part. I must re-read the blog, considering I probably misinterpretted as did we all, some of the issues you raised.
    Thank you again, and I let your mind rest with the fact that I intend to carry on trying to save animals, no matter the species, nor how natural they are. All life is precious, and I am making it my place in life to help the incredible, disgusting suffering that is brought upon animals all over the world at the hands of mankind.
    Thank you again
    Cassie

  163. HmMmMmM….. i read as much as i could, but not all, so i’ve probably got everything all wrong….so my sincerest apologies in advance if i have :) (warning even though i’m english, my english isnt very good, so sorry for that to)

    I completely agree with the fact tht in-breedin these tigers is seriously screwed up!!! i hate people who do those types of things!

    But also i dnt really agree with breeding white tigers to make more (as beautiful as they are, and no one throw at me i obviously dont care about em, bcoz think about it, its a TIGER that has taken 2 recessive genes so its not been able to produce thecolour pigmant to make orange fur and therfore its white[well i think that is the case, or so i've read]) so really humans should just back off and focus on preserving all tigers in general. And let the rarity that is a white tiger appear naturally.

    but thts just my opinion, obviously its fine to have your own, so no-one please take offence and snap at me, or make me out to be some inconsiderate jerk :)

  164. I do not remember if I copied and pasted this tribute to Kenny from Turpentine Creek where he lived his life. I thought I would share it again even if I had. He was a wonderful creature and his brother Willie is still doing fine.

    Kenny
    Carrie Trudeau, Staff Biologist
    In June of 2007, our beloved Kenny Rogers was diagnosed with melanoma shortly after he was released into his natural habitat. Since that time
    Kenny lived a healthy, vibrant life running through the grass and swimming in his pool. In March of this year, our staff was dismayed to discover
    a large tumor growing on his lower abdomen. Our wonderful veterinarians were able to remove the tumor, but were not too optimistic about his
    prognosis. Sadly, they were correct in presuming the tumor would return. The surgery gave Kenny a few more months of quality life, but he was
    living on borrowed time. The melanoma not only returned, but it spread directly to Kenny’s lungs. On June 27, 2008, Kenny gave up the fight and
    passed away.
    Since his rescue in 2000, Kenny quickly became Turpentine Creek’s single most popular cat. His unique features distinguished him above all others,
    and he stole the hearts of everyone who met him. Some called him ugly, some called him unnatural, but everyone left his presence with a new
    understanding of why Turpentine Creek exists. His unusual appearance and goofy personality melted hearts and opened eyes. The message that
    Kenny had to send reached well beyond the refuge and our visitors.
    The World Wide Web is littered with information regarding the breeding of white tigers. Many of these websites have pictures of Kenny, making
    him a poster child for tiger inbreeding. People that have never been to the refuge have seen his face and understand the evils of inbreeding white
    tigers. Kenny’s legacy will live out long after his death, and even now he continues to educate people and help save his own kind. Kenny was
    loved by literally hundreds of people, and will be truly missed. Captive tigers everywhere owe Kenny their gratitude for reaching out to so many
    people on their behalf. Thank you Kenny, you will never be forgotten……

    I was very fortunate to visit Turpentine Creek on many occasions and the staff there is wonderful and caring. It is sad to think there even has to be a place like that to take in tigers and lions since they should not be bred and sold like kittens or puppies.

    Calisfer, I hope you are doing well and continue to have support caring for your tipped ear clan! It is wonderful that you are so important in cats lives also! Love and huggles to ya honey!

  165. Pingback: Selective Breeding in Captivity and the Genetic Engineering of Animals « Sh0tliver’s Blog

  166. The white tiger is NOT! simply a product of incestuous mating.
    It it formed by a double recessive gene which has a 1 in 4 chance of resulting from ANY bengal tiger pair that each have dominant/recessive genes as normal tigers do.
    There are so few of them in the wild because they lack the camouflage to survive and are likely to die young, which is why there are more of them in captivity than the wild.
    So do some research before you start spouting rubbish!!!!

  167. Live, Laugh, Love….
    No!
    It is not a mutation stopping them from producing the pigment, it’s the double recessive gene.
    Like in humans, people with cystic fybrosis have double recessive genes for that.
    And, those with green eyes have double recessive green eye genes.
    So please get some correct information before you try and correct others.
    And before anyone hits back….I am a biology student and this happens to be my main research topic for my current paper!

  168. Cara-Leigh,
    You said:

    The white tiger is NOT! simply a product of incestuous mating.
    It it formed by a double recessive gene which has a 1 in 4 chance of resulting from ANY bengal tiger pair that each have dominant/recessive genes as normal tigers do.
    There are so few of them in the wild because they lack the camouflage to survive and are likely to die young, which is why there are more of them in captivity than the wild.
    So do some research before you start spouting rubbish!!!!

    Did you check the bloodlines of the white tigers in captivity, wonder at the mortality rate of white tigers in captivity, or wonder just WHY IS THERE SUCH A HIGH NUMBER OF WHITE TIGERS IN CAPTIVITY COMPARED TO TAWNY TIGERS vis-a-vis the rate of occurrence in the wild, before you go sputtering genetic facts that’s already common knowledge but do not answer these questions? But I am glad to see you do not deny the impact of incestuous breeding on white tigers in captivity.

    You then said

    Live, Laugh, Love….
    No!
    It is not a mutation stopping them from producing the pigment, it’s the double recessive gene.
    Like in humans, people with cystic fybrosis have double recessive genes for that.
    And, those with green eyes have double recessive green eye genes.
    So please get some correct information before you try and correct others.
    And before anyone hits back….I am a biology student and this happens to be my main research topic for my current paper!

    So we are not all biology students writing mutations or genetics for our current paper. Thank you for the examples. However, I do find these two definitions of mutation good enough for my layman understanding:

    – “Mutants are natural variations which occur due to spontaneous genetic changes or the expression of recessive (hidden) genes.” (Source)
    – “…traditionally, a mutant is a strain that has an altered growth property (termed the phenotype) relative to An arbitrarily chosen benchmark strain (termed the wild type). In this description, a mutation is the change in the DNA sequence (the genotype) which causes that altered phenotype. I would like to propose instead the following definition: a mutation is a change in the sequence of DNA from what is found in the wild type irrespective of the resulting phenotype. A strain carrying such a change is termed a mutant.” (Source)

  169. Literate person

    Oh god.

    I just read this whole thing.

    And all the comments too.

    It is so hilarious how these people go off spouting absolute bullshit without checking sources or even bothering to read the article. I’ve spent the last hour or so simply boggling at the lack of reading comprehension in these “white tiger conservationist” people.

    I too found your article whilst googling white tigers (It’s on the first page, I believe, perhaps the reason the Illiterate Conclusion-Jumpers Brigade has invaded). I was already aware of a lot of the information here, but I did learn new things, and I greatly respect you, Calsifer, for a) making such a persuasive argument on such an important topic, b) checking your sources, using references, and not simply pulling facts out of one’s ass like most of your opponents have done, and c) putting up with the jaw-dropping stupidity of most of the replies while keeping your head.

    I realize that this article is around two years old now, but I thought I’d still offer my support. Kudos to you and the others in these comments who bothered to base their arguements on truth instead of truthiness.

  170. Dear Literate Person,
    Thank you very much for taking the time to post your comment and thus validating my sanity.

    I am sorry though, that you had to spend an hour wading through some of the champions mind bogglers here. But well, despite it being two years old, this post is still very much alive, averaging 2 to 3 hundred hits every single day. So jump in any time.

  171. i love white tigers but the whole incest thing is gross its like breeding with your sister cause you both have blue eys and you want a kid with blkue eyes idk it just gross but white tigers are my favorite just im sure thers a better way, kenny seems like he loves live though big goofball

  172. Pingback: White Tigers, revealed | Kitty Mowmow's Animal Expo

  173. I smell the fanatics of PETA on this site, however, I’ll take a moment to argue and agree on both sides.

    For starters, I do agree with the poster of this article about the problems of Inbreeding animals. Kenny is an unfortunate outcome of large cats too closely related to each other. That is a fault of the breeding facility, and I will admit that the USDA, or AZA, can not keep tabs on all breeders, as some are underground and keep their business privatized.

    However, let me make a point about genetics. The recessive genetic trait of the white tiger, say “ww”, needs to be apparent in one of the parents. Mom or dad, doesn’t matter. To inherit the recessive gene, the other parent will need to be “Ww” or containing one of the recessive genes, most likely being an orange colored tiger, or cat, as in the case of our leopards. If you have ever studied genetics, the statistics of the two cats producing a “ww” cub is fifty percent, while the other fifty percent will be normal coloration. That does not mean the cat with the “Ww” gene is related to anyone, in fact, many may never produce “full recessive” traits because the chance of the “ww” breeding with the “Ww” has always fallen to just that, chance! Here is where the expensive blood tests are done, as well as research into the background of the cat’s lineage comes into play.

    In zoos, or breeding facilities for zoos, most credible ones take great care to prevent the possibility of inter breeding related cats. A normal spotted African leopard with a full melanistic leopard. A normal Bengal tiger with a white Bengal tiger… and so on and so forth. There is a lot of genetic work taken to ensure that the breeding pair is not related, through documents, which zoos do keep for references.

    White Bangal tigers have occurred out in the wild, and it is documented by hunters and locals. And, because of human desire for the abnormal, they were hunted near extinction, along with the normal colored tiger. Saying that the white tiger is not natural, and only a product of inbreeding is misleading.

    However, conservation has required the inbreeding of several species of animal to stabilize the population. The Cheetah is a great example, and only roughly 12400 are found in the wild. Unfortunately, conversationalists were a bit late on protecting these cats, and many scientists believe that due to the inbreeding, they are no longer a viable species, having too close of a genetic relationship.

    That’s not the case with the Tigers, or Lions, or Leopards, and their species population is doing very well through captive breeding programs.

    Another point that agrees with the Original poster is that some places, including Sigfried and Roy, state that White Tigers are their own species. They are not, but simply a genetic mutation.

    However, regarding a genetic mutation as something unnatural is like stating that the Blond haired, blue eyed gene is something unnatural in humans, as it is a recessive genetic trait. It is an evolutionary trait obviously brought about by necessary or unnecessary outcomes in nature. The white tiger is larger in size to it’s normal colored counterpart, and can blend in well with snowy surroundings. It could be considered the blond haired, blue eyed counterpart to the human.

    My conclusion is that I agree and disagree with some points of this article, but it does bring about to the public awareness that the unpracticed breeders of tigers, or any large cat really, are not taking care to prevent inbreeding of genetically recessive traits, and instead doing it as Puppy/Kitten Mills are with their animals. Breed for Quantity, and not Quality. We can, and should, all agree that one healthy animal is preferred over an abundance of unhealthy, unhappy animals.

    However, readers should be aware that this does not occur in all zoos, or their breeding facilities. There are a number of honest facilities that make painstakingly careful research in their animals, bloodlines, and tests for genetic similarities or relations and defects. However, they produce a fraction of the number that “substandard” Breeders produce, and thus are over looked.

    I feel this article is written primarily about the substandard facilities, though both points should be researched instead of categorizing the entirety of breeding programs as evil.

    • Anubis,
      You say “I feel this article is written primarily about the substandard facilities, though both points should be researched instead of categorizing the entirety of breeding programs as evil.”

      You got it right and wrong. I certainly did not categorise all breeding programs as evil, only the deception of the so-called white tiger breeding programs being conducted by the Toms, Dicks, and Harrys of the exotic pets world.